Grappling

[Junkheap]

Since the search feature doesn't work, i needed an answer about grappling.

Who wins in a tie??

Sceneario: Cleric is fighting an ooze(dont remember which one, but it is the one before the black pudding). The ooze hits and get a grapple attempt with the cleric without provoking an AOO. Either way, the end result end up being the opposed grapple check was a tie at 18.

My players argue the cleric won, and i argue(DM) the ooze one. Either way, it doesn't state what a tie is. All it talks about it losing the grapple or winning the grapple. We checked tip and disarm and it talks about the same thing.

Then one of the players checked escape artist and said that in that description, is state that all the defender has to do is tie the DC to be set free. But the ooze doesnt set a DC, or is the opposed grapple check a DC? If so, why didnt they just state under grapple that the attacker sets DC? Everyone knows with a DC you have to tie.

And does defender always win???Thats what the players were saying as well.

Again thanks for the wonderfull advice guys.

 

[Shinanofran]

hell, if there is that much contrversy why don't you just reroll?

Is anyone opposed to that?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It's been a while, but we've played it as ties go to the attacker. The defnder rolls to set the dc for the attacker to reach is how we rationalized it.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

From the SRD, "If the result of the d20 roll + the Modifiers equals or exceeds the Target Number, the test is successful. Any other result is a failure."

Though it may be different for opposed rolls. I remember something about ties on opposed Ability rolls... that whoever has the higher ability score/modifier wins in a tie. I'd have to doublecheck with the rulebook on that though...

 

[Malin Genie]

Each grappler could plausibly be seen as setting a DC for the other grappler, so the 'meet the DC' logic doesn't really help.

The 'higher modifier wins' applies only to initiative (where there is no 'defender' and no 'attacker' per se) IIRC

The mechanic for grapples we've always played is 'in a tie the defender wins.' I think that it's backed up somewhere in the rules but I'm going to be less than helpful as I don't have the PHB or SRD access here (will edit if/when reference found....)

 

[Junkheap]

Shinofran: We could have rerolled, but a definite answer is better than a temp fix.

Jack: That quote from the SRD is great, but who sets it? If the attacker sets it the defender wins AND if the defender sets it, the attacker wins.

I guess it comes down to is are you setting a DC. If so, who sets it. If not setting a DC and an opposed check is somthing different, what happens on a tie.

 

[Negative Zero]

i think there's more argument for the attacker setting the DC. generally, whenever there is an offensive action, (attack by spell, trap and so on) that's what sets the DC, and it's up to the defender to overcome it. seems to me that this is a similar situation. instead of a mage casting a spell at a target, you have an ooze grappling a cleric. in either case the agressor sets the DC.

just my opinion

~NegZ

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Here we go...

PHB, Page 60, second column near the top of the page, "For ties on opposed checks, the character with the highest key ability score wins. For instance, in a Move Silently against Listen check that results in a tie, the sneaker's Dexterity would be compared to the listener's Wisdom. If these scores are the same, flip a coin."

Grapple checks aren't skills checks, per se, but I think you could apply the same rule.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

We treat it more like an attack roll, since it includes BAB. The attacker, therefore, must equal or exceed the defender's roll (like AC) to succeed. A tie goes to the attacker just like it goes to the attacker when he ties his opponents AC in a regular fight.

 

[smetzger]

We treat it more like an attack roll, since it includes BAB. The attacker, therefore, must equal or exceed the defender's roll (like AC) to succeed. A tie goes to the attacker just like it goes to the attacker when he ties his opponents AC in a regular fight.

Unless you are using Escape Artist then its a skill check for one person and 'like an attack' for the other. So tie goes to the defender since skill checks are successful with a tie.

Just a little devil's advocate.