Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[Cleon]

I'm happy enough with the poison also, so I guess we just need Arnwyn to weigh in.

Doesn't the "I like it so far" in his last post indicate he's OK with the Poison?

I think I like the simple approach of collapsing in the field of a planet-ish object.

So are you favoring a "take X damage per round for obstacles greater than gossamer's mass, or auto-collapse for obstacles greater than Y tons" approach?

I'm still tempted by the more complicated variable-damage-by-mass approach, but let's see what Arnwyn thinks.

So something at least 100 million tons kills it?

Why not round it to a nice round billion? Then we can have a nice long argument as to whether that's a thousand million or a million million!

 

[Arnwyn]

Yes, I'm good with the poison (I'm not sure poison is going to be the thing that really 'hurts' a gammaroid in any of their battles).

I'm also okay with the Noble Gossamer simply collapsing when it enters the gravity of something big. (It's simpler, and I think the nobles - on account of being 'noble' - should avoid the damaging effects of anything smaller than 'really big' - like planetoids/planets.)

Whether it's 10 million, 100 million, or 1 billion tons doesn't really matter, since in Spelljammer (at least), there is no distinction at those sizes.

So... 1 billion is fine (fewer letters!).

 

[freyar]

I meant to go with the simpler option of collapsing when in the presence of a planetoid but not taking damage otherwise. So it seems we're agreed enough. One billion tons it is for the "collapse weight." Thought there's not any sense in which 100 million rounds to 1 billion.

Do gossamer nobles deliquesce in the original text? If so, that's going to be a really big acid puddle...

 

[Cleon]

I meant to go with the simpler option of collapsing when in the presence of a planetoid but not taking damage otherwise. So it seems we're agreed enough. One billion tons it is for the "collapse weight." Thought there's not any sense in which 100 million rounds to 1 billion.

So something like:

Voidborn (Ex): A gossamer can exist comfortably in the harsh conditions of space. It takes no damage from radiation or vacuum. However, a noble gossamer is vulnerable to gravity and pressure. If a noble gossamer enters the air envelope or gravity field of a creature or object that masses at least one billion tons, it immediately collapses in on itself and dies.

Do gossamer nobles deliquesce in the original text? If so, that's going to be a really big acid puddle...

The standard and noble gossamers share the same Monstrous Compendium entry. The bit about them deliquescing is in the Ecology section, which is just before the Noble Gossamer portion of the text. The Noble Gossamer's section makes no mention of them deliquescing. However, the Ecology section just refers to "Gossamers" without distinguishing between the two varieties, so the deliquescence might refer to both. That's unlikely though, since both the previous sections of text specifically refer to the standard "gossamer shoals".

I'd still be inclined to have the Noble Gossamer melt into a really big acid puddle though, just to be consistent.

 

[freyar]

I'll go along with that.

Deliquescence is quite fun, so I'll agree to that. Scaling the size with the critter's space and damage with sting damage, we get

Deliquescence (Ex): 1d3 rounds after a gossamer noble dies, its remains melt into a foul-smelling puddle 300 ft. across. The viscous liquid of the puddle is corrosive and poisonous. Contact with the fluid does 1d8 point of acid damage and exposes the touching object to the gossamer's poison (see below). The dangerous properties of the fluid evaporate away 1d10 minutes after the creature deliquesced.

Are we happy with that? It's such a large puddle, I wouldn't mind allowing it to stick around longer, like maybe 1d4 or 1d6 hours up to a few days.

 

[GrayLinnorm]

Why don't we just jettison the part about it collapsing in the presence of a planet into the phlogiston, so it actually can be used in adventures?

 

[Arnwyn]

Yeah, I like Deliquescence too, so I'm good with it.

300 ft! That'll cover the entire deck of most ships. Heh, cool.

I'm okay with just 1d10 minutes... otherwise we'd be stuck with a ship crew just hiding below decks for hours (days?) until it dries up. (Though, come to think of it, that actually might be worth it for the 'adventure opportunities' [read: hardship] - the ship could still spelljam if the helm was below decks, but woe to the ship who then runs into a tactical encounter without the rigging being manned...) So, maybe additional time might not be bad... but would it damage the deck of a ship too much? Hmm. Wood has hardness of 5, so with 1d8 damage the deck would take (on average) 6 hp of damage every 8 rounds (or 0.75 damage a round)... that might be too much (if it does damage the ship when it's in a pool). I think I'm fine with 1d10 minutes (and even that is probably too much!).

Why don't we just jettison the part about it collapsing in the presence of a planet into the phlogiston, so it actually can be used in adventures?

I'm not sure what this means... I envision noble gossamers attacking spelljamming ships and their crew, with the PCs then on deck fighting it off...

 

[freyar]

Why don't we just jettison the part about it collapsing in the presence of a planet into the phlogiston, so it actually can be used in adventures?

I'm not sure what this means... I envision noble gossamers attacking spelljamming ships and their crew, with the PCs then on deck fighting it off...

I had also been thinking about limiting this to encounters while spelljamming, but the idea of a space jellyfish descending onto a planet is pretty cool. But I think the original monster probably is supposed to be untenable in normal gravity.

 

[Cleon]

I'll go along with that.

Updating the Noble Gossamer Working Draft.

Deliquescence is quite fun, so I'll agree to that. Scaling the size with the critter's space and damage with sting damage, we get

Deliquescence (Ex): 1d3 rounds after a gossamer noble dies, its remains melt into a foul-smelling puddle 300 ft. across. The viscous liquid of the puddle is corrosive and poisonous. Contact with the fluid does 1d8 point of acid damage and exposes the touching object to the gossamer's poison (see below). The dangerous properties of the fluid evaporate away 1d10 minutes after the creature deliquesced.

Are we happy with that? It's such a large puddle, I wouldn't mind allowing it to stick around longer, like maybe 1d4 or 1d6 hours up to a few days.

The size is fine but I think the damage is too low. Remember the Gossamer Noble can do 20d8 damage per round with its acid - 1d8 per tentacle.

How about we make it 2d12 acid damage instead?

 

[Cleon]

Hmm. Wood has hardness of 5, so with 1d8 damage the deck would take (on average) 6 hp of damage every 8 rounds (or 0.75 damage a round)... that might be too much (if it does damage the ship when it's in a pool). I think I'm fine with 1d10 minutes (and even that is probably too much!).

A ship's hull is likely similar to a 6-inch wooden wall, which has 60 hit points according to the rules. That'd last an average of 8 minutes at 0.75 damage per round, so the Spelljammers might lose their ship.

(Course, if we increased the damage like I suggested earlier it'd be over a lot faster!)

Why don't we just jettison the part about it collapsing in the presence of a planet into the phlogiston, so it actually can be used in adventures?

I'm not sure what this means... I envision noble gossamers attacking spelljamming ships and their crew, with the PCs then on deck fighting it off...

I believe Linnorm's saying he'd prefer it if Noble Gossamers could enter planetary atmospheres safely and attack adventurers on the surface.

That seems contrary to the original monster, so I prefer the current version, but there's no reason not to Homebrew it that way for an individual campaign. If necessary a DM could say it's a "Gas Giant Gossamer" that isn't susceptible to gravitational collapse, an unrelated monster that happens to have the same stats, or a Noble Gossamer that's been magically augmented to remove that vulnerability (by a cocaine wizard, presumably).