D&D 5E Combat Skills

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I have a skills based game I'm building, and as I dial things in via iteration, I come around to having to deal with the lower tiers of "problems" in the system. The stuff that isn't too problematic, really, but that could definitely be improved. Stuff like the fact that my system has weapon skills, and they take up most of the Physical Skills group of skills, and all they are is lists of type of weapons that you can specialise in, essentially working like proficiencies in dnd except you just have a skill rank.

To be more specific, one such skill is One-Handed Weapons, with the specialties Axes, Blades, and Bludgeons.

In comparison, using a skill that is still very tangible and has a lot of combat usage, we have Pyromancy, with it's specialties; Combustion (set stuff on fire, with some degree of pyrokenesis possible), Convection (transfer heat, heat up your weapons, heat up an object you're interacting with, etc), and Luminescence (create light, includes illuminating magically hidden things, stuff like that).

So, the weapon skill is a list of weapons, while the fire magic skill is a list of ways to do magic with fire. The fire magic skill is more interesting, not just because it's magic and who doesn't like fire, but because it speaks to types of actions.

All i've been able to think of to do differently with mundane combat skills is to have like...aggressive melee, keep the enemy at bay/control focused melee, and reactive/counter-focused melee, and then maybe fast shooting, precise shooting, and mobile shooting? But then I've turned 7 skills into two skills. Even if I keep martial arts separate, that's 3 skills. Less than half as many, and Physical Skills are already the smallest group, with 1 less skill than Interaction Skills and Magical Skills.

Maybe keep the weapon groups, but have the usage based specialties in each group? So One-Handed Weapons and Two-Handed Weapons would both have, Aggressive, Control, and Counter, specialties? Bows and Firearms would both have the aforementioned Fast, Precise, and Mobile, specialties?

I'll answer any questions you need if anyone has any thoughts on this. I think typing all that out is already helping, and the idea I've put forth may very well work, but I'm not 100% sold on it. I'd really appreciate any thoughts, as long as it's not "don't make a skills based game no one does that anymore you old!"

 

[BookTenTiger]

I think you've hit upon something really interesting!

You could pick three actions that a character can do with certain weapons. Let's say you have the skill "Axe." You could break it into Chop, Block, Disarm. Or with "Staff" you could have Strike, Block, Trip.

 

[Stormonu]

I think @BookTenTiger has hit on a good idea. Somewhat reminds me of the way you chose spells in 1E - Offensive use, Defensive use, Other. Other could especially come into play with exotic weapons.

Ranged weapons wouldn't likely have a defensive use, so it'd probably be something like the Precision, Range, Other category.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think you've hit upon something really interesting!

You could pick three actions that a character can do with certain weapons. Let's say you have the skill "Axe." You could break it into Chop, Block, Disarm. Or with "Staff" you could have Strike, Block, Trip.

That is an idea worth exploring, for sure!

I think @BookTenTiger has hit on a good idea. Somewhat reminds me of the way you chose spells in 1E - Offensive use, Defensive use, Other. Other could especially come into play with exotic weapons.

Awesome iteration on an interesting idea! It mirrors how the magic skills each ha e at least one utility oriented specialty, like Pyro has Luminesence, Electromancy has Signal which lets you manipulate devices, Geomancy has Geolocate which lets you perceive via vibrations, etc.

Id go with “Control”, maybe, for the “other” specialty?

Ranged weapons wouldn't likely have a defensive use, so it'd probably be something like the Precision, Range, Other category.

YeahI think ranger weapons might stick with “Precise, Fast, and Mobile”, but Control could work, too! Or Trickshot?

Other might work too, since it would include stuff like using a hand axe to catch a ledge when falling, or use daggers as makeshift pitons when climbing, or shooting magically strengthened arrows into a cliff face to help your allies climb it, etc.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay, maybe Offensive, Defensive, and Utility,

Less evocative than other skills, but it works better than all your rapier actions being governed by a single specialty of the OneHanded Weapons skill.

Also I thought switching from One-Handed Weapons, Two-Handed Weapons, Thrown Weapons, etc to Swords, Axes, Bludgeons, etc, but I feel like various one handed weapons generally have more in common in terms of use than a dueling small sword and a claymore? As well, I’m not sure there is a clean way to split up various long pokey-whackers, like spears, glaives, staves, etc.

Im willing to be convinced by strong arguments, though!

 

[Stormonu]

I think one-handed/two-handed is far less useful than type - Axe (hand axe, melee tomahawk, bearded axe, battle axe, great axe, halbard), Light Blade (knife, dagger, shortsword), Heavy Blade (Longsword, Greatsword), Fencing Blade (Rapier, Scimitar) , Bludgeon (fist, Cetus, gauntlet, brass knuckles, club, mace, quarterstaff), Flail (footman’s, horseman’s, nunchucks, chain), Spear (Javelin, spear, long spear, pike), Bow (short bow, longbow), X-Bow (heavy/light/hand crossbow, pistol and rifle), Thrown Blade (shrunken, knifes, daggers), Thrown Axe (tomahawk, hand axe), Thrown Spear (javelin, spear).

I mean, with the fire skill, you aren’t bothering to break it out into Matches, Camp Fires, Bonfires, & Forest Fires - so why break weapons out by size?

If you want to retain the one-handed, two-handed, polearm divide, you could go Light <Weapon Type>, Medium <Weapon Type>, Heavy <Weapon Type>.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay, maybe Offensive, Defensive, and Utility,

Less evocative than other skills, but it works better than all your rapier actions being governed by a single specialty of the OneHanded Weapons skill.

Also I thought switching from One-Handed Weapons, Two-Handed Weapons, Thrown Weapons, etc to Swords, Axes, Bludgeons, etc, but I feel like various one handed weapons generally have more in common in terms of use than a dueling small sword and a claymore? As well, I’m not sure there is a clean way to split up various long pokey-whackers, like spears, glaives, staves, etc.

Im willing to be convinced by strong arguments, though!

I think one-handed/two-handed is far less useful than type - Axe (hand axe, melee tomahawk, bearded axe, battle axe, great axe, halbard), Light Blade (knife, dagger, shortsword), Heavy Blade (Longsword, Greatsword), Fencing Blade (Rapier, Scimitar) , Bludgeon (fist, Cetus, gauntlet, brass knuckles, club, mace, quarterstaff), Flail (footman’s, horseman’s, nunchucks, chain), Spear (Javelin, spear, long spear, pike), Bow (short bow, longbow), X-Bow (heavy/light/hand crossbow, pistol and rifle), Thrown Blade (shrunken, knifes, daggers), Thrown Axe (tomahawk, hand axe), Thrown Spear (javelin, spear).

I mean, with the fire skill, you aren’t bothering to break it out into Matches, Camp Fires, Bonfires, & Forest Fires - so why break weapons out by size?

If you want to retain the one-handed, two-handed, polearm divide, you could go Light <Weapon Type>, Medium <Weapon Type>, Heavy <Weapon Type>.

it’s not so much breaking them out by size, as by usage.

Right now the weapon skills are; Bows (includes crossbows), Heavy Weapons, Martial Arts, One-Handed, Shields, Thrown Weapons, Two-Handed.

What I like about it is that it categorizes by sort of what you are doing, especially if changing specialties to action types. One-Handed weapons are weapons you use with one hand, rather than a type of thing. Just like the skill for picking locks is Lockpicking under Thievery, not “Lockpicks”.

The main thing for me is, which helps make a character more, however. I’m not sure at this point.

 

[Stormonu]

Perhaps base the skills on fighting styles instead of the weapons themselves?

Fencing, Sword & shield, Florentine, Phalanx, etc.?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Perhaps base the skills on fighting styles instead of the weapons themselves?

Fencing, Sword & shield, Florentine, Phalanx, etc.?

Hmmm. Interesting idea. Not sure how that would end up working in total, without having a ton of skills.

Perhaps keep it as general as possible…let’s see…Dueling for stuff like using a one handed weapon by itself or with an offhand weapon, Heavy for hard-hitting smasher-style fighting, Light or Defensive for sword-and-board, Reactive/Deceptive/IDK for like, dagger and free hand Assassins Creed type stuff?

Idk. I’ll think on it.

 

[Stormonu]

Hmmm. Interesting idea. Not sure how that would end up working in total, without having a ton of skills.

Perhaps keep it as general as possible…let’s see…Dueling for stuff like using a one handed weapon by itself or with an offhand weapon, Heavy for hard-hitting smasher-style fighting, Light or Defensive for sword-and-board, Reactive/Deceptive/IDK for like, dagger and free hand Assassins Creed type stuff?

Idk. I’ll think on it.

Yeah, general would be best - don’t need a completely seperate skill for each, just where it would there would be noticable differences in the sub skills (primarily the “other” portion). Maybe use the Fighter Styles as the basis?