Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Agree on Window of madness.
Keep mad insight simple so mad insight A.
Keep mad insight simple so mad insight A.
5E: Fifth Edition Monster Variants Inspired by Fourth Edition Sources
Cleon
Legend
What mechanics shall we use for it?
The original Window of Madness created a 10-foot square burst around an ally that did 10 damage to nonderro per round for the encounter and also made the target vulnerable to Dance of Madness, which allowed them to slide (e.g. move) each creature within the zone 10 feet: note it says creature so the dancing also affected derro.
Shall we just repurpose that into 5E terms?
It may be simpler, but I why would being personable (high CHA) make you more observant (good Perception). Option B of using the derro's INT made more sense to me.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Cleon
Legend
Agreed.
So are we adding a special effect to the Chaos Staff?
The original Derro's Scourge automatically gave the target penalties on their attack rolls:
Derro Savant from Monster Manual 3 said:
One option is to just treat the Scourge as a melee version of its Bolts:
Chaos Staff #2. Melee Spell Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage plus 10 (3d6) damage of a random type (roll d4: 1=necrotic, 2=poison, 3=cold, 4=lightning) and the target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. If they fail, the target suffers a special effect that depends on the bolt's damage type:
- Necrotic Damage: Target can't regain hit points until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
- Poison Damage: Target is poisoned until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
- Cold Damage: Target's speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
- Lightning Damage: Target can't take reactions until the start of the target's next turn.
Or we could mix it up a bit and make it:
Chaos Staff #3. Melee Spell Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 3 (1d6) bludgeoning damage plus 10 (3d6) damage of a random type (roll d4: 1=necrotic, 2=poison, 3=cold, 4=lightning) and the target must make a DC 15 Charisma saving throw. If they fail, the target has disadvantage on Intelligence and Wisdom ability checks and Attack Rolls until the start of the chaos savant's next turn.
Which is meant to be closer to the original.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Let's go with #3
Cleon
Legend
Cleon
Legend
Let's see, what else to update. We settled on the following for its insane strength:
And tweaked the psychic scourge as follows:
Now we're moving onto its two Madness auras.
Here's a rough first draft for the maddening Windows.
The Dance of Madness bonus action targets a creature that's been crazed by Window of Madness and causes it to radiate an aura that causes psychic damage and the Dancing Mad condition for its turn.
Oh, and in case you where wondering why I named the condition Dancing Mad…
Strength of Madness (Recharge 4-6). Until the end of the chaos savant's turn, the savant gains advantage on melee attack rolls and its melee weapons do an additional 4 (1d8) damage if they hit.
And tweaked the psychic scourge as follows:
Mind Scourge. The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet, who takes 10 (3d6) psychic damage and must make a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw. If the save fails, then at the start of the target's next turn it must choose between taking an additional 10 (3d6) psychic damage or being stunned until the end of that turn.
Now we're moving onto its two Madness auras.
Here's a rough first draft for the maddening Windows.
Window to Madness (Recharge 5-6?). The chaos savant targets one creature within 60 feet. The targeted creature must succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (target's choice) or take 10 (3d6) psychic damage or become crazed for 1 minute. All other creatures within # feet of the creature targeted by Window to Madness must succeed at a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (creature's choice) or take 5 (1d10) psychic damage and is crazed until the end of their next turn. Derro are immune to psychic damage caused by Window of Madness but can become crazed.
A crazed creature has disadvantage on any ability check to interact socially with creatures who are not crazed or insane (such as derro). [Effects that protect against charms or confusion, such as immunity to the charmed condition, provide the same protection from being crazed. ?]
The crazed target must make a DC 15 Wisdom or Charisma saving throw (target's choice) at the start of each turn, ending the effect on itself on a success. If the save fails, the target must choose whether to take 5 (1d10) psychic damage or become Dancing Mad (see below) until the start of its next turn. If the target fails the saving throw by 5 or more, it takes 5 (1d10) psychic damage and is Dancing Mad that turn.
NEW CONDITION: DANCING MAD
A dancing mad creature must move one-third of its movement (minimum 5 feet) in a random direction at the end of each of its turns. If the random direction is blocked by an obstacle, the creature changes direction to randomly use up its remaining dancing movement. The creature will only remain in place if there is nowhere for it to randomly dance into. Dancing movement counts against the creature's normal movement allowance (i.e. its Speed does not increase by 10 ft.). The random movement avoids hazards the creature is aware of, such as cliffs or traps: the creature is insane, not stupid!
The Dance of Madness bonus action targets a creature that's been crazed by Window of Madness and causes it to radiate an aura that causes psychic damage and the Dancing Mad condition for its turn.
Oh, and in case you where wondering why I named the condition Dancing Mad…
Cleon
Legend
Incidentally, I tried a more elaborate approach with Crazed as a separate condition but decided I didn't care for it:
Oh, and a word of explanation about the red bit in the previous post:
The 4E version's Window to Madness affected more or less any creature it his, but I was thinking it might make sense if it didn't affect creatures that were resistant to certain mind-affecting powers, such as undead with Condition Immunity charmed.
I was also thinking we might add it to the Dancing Mad condition, i.e. "Effects that protect against charms or confusion, such as immunity to the charmed condition, provide the same protection from dancing mad".
Then again, the thought of a zombie or gelatinous cube becoming crazy and dancing madly IS somewhat amusing, and derro chaos savants laugh at your game rules and their "logic" so maybe we should allow it to befuddle creatures that are immune to mind-affecting abilities or don't even have minds!
Old Draft said:
Oh, and a word of explanation about the red bit in the previous post:
The 4E version's Window to Madness affected more or less any creature it his, but I was thinking it might make sense if it didn't affect creatures that were resistant to certain mind-affecting powers, such as undead with Condition Immunity charmed.
I was also thinking we might add it to the Dancing Mad condition, i.e. "Effects that protect against charms or confusion, such as immunity to the charmed condition, provide the same protection from dancing mad".
Then again, the thought of a zombie or gelatinous cube becoming crazy and dancing madly IS somewhat amusing, and derro chaos savants laugh at your game rules and their "logic" so maybe we should allow it to befuddle creatures that are immune to mind-affecting abilities or don't even have minds!
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
Cleon
Legend
Fine by me.
Shall I update it without the red bit then?
We still need to decide on a radius for the effect.
10 feet? The original was 1 square, but 5 feet seems a bit too small.
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