D&D (2024) 2024 Player's Handbook reveal: "New Bard"

Eh, because people are going to be comparing the Bard to the Monk constantly, might as well throw up some raw numbers.

Levels 1 and 2: Technically skipping this, since there is no College of Dance at these levels. If you've got a strong desire to only fight as a Dancer, ask to start at level 3.

For the below levels, I am assuming zero equipment and just looking at them as a solo fighter. Yes, the Dance Bard has tremendous support capabilities, they are a Bard. This is mostly because of the "did they eat the Monk's lunch" question.

Level 3:
Monk Offense: They can attack for 1d6+dex as their action, then again as their bonus action, for 2d6+2dex as a baseline. They can spend one of three points to attack three times instead, getting 3d6+3dex. Points refresh on a short rest, and 1/day at initiative. Unarmed strike for grapple and shove can use dexterity.
Dance Offense: They can attack for 1d6+Dex as their action. Then if they are spending one of their DAILY uses of Bardic Inspiration, they can raise that to 2d6+2dex. This maxes them at the Monk standard, for three or four turns a day max. Their unarmed grapple and shove still rely on strength.
Monk Defense: Unarmored defense, they can disengage as a bonus action getting them out of trouble, and they can use their reaction to deflect attacks if they are attacked. For a single point they can disengage AND dodge, or they can turn their deflection into damage. Points refresh on a short rest, and 1/day at initiative during which time they also heal hp.
Dance Defense: Unarmored defense with charisma. This is it.
Monk Mobility: By this point the Monk has a base speed of at least 40 ft, they can dash as a bonus action. Additionally, they can spend a point to dash and disengage. Points refresh on a short rest, and 1/day at initiative.
Dance Mobility: No innate speed increase.

Level 5:
Monk Offense: damage die increased to 1d8, gained extra attack, gained stunning strike, maxes at 4d8+4dex. Also, has two more points to spend.
Dance Offense: Damage die increased to 1d8, Bardic dice refresh on short rest, allowing for more bonus action attacks.
Monk Defense: Healing die from Metabolism increased.
Dance Defense: No change
Monk Mobility: No change
Dance Mobility: No Change

Level 6:
Monk Offense: Can ignore resistance by changing damage to force damage. Monk has more points.
Dance Offense: No change
Monk Defense: No change
Dance Defense: You can use your reaction to spend a die, move half your speed, and this allows for an attack. Since it is your die, it isn't increasing offense, since you will have one less bonus action attack now. You also have the countercharm reaction to re-roll a failed charm save.
Monk Mobility: Increased speed
Dance Mobility: No Change

The only thing left for Dance Bard that can be counted in this, is Evasion at level 14, which monk got at level 7. Monk also gets up to 5 attacks at level 10 with a point spent, gains temp hp when they use patient defense, can carry allies with step of the wind, run up walls and across liquids at level 9, cancel their own charm, frighten or poisoned condition, gain resistance to all damage, gain all save proficiencies, re-roll failed saves, and get a bonus to hit, damage, and AC at 20th level.

Does this mean the Dance Bard is weak? Absolutely not. They are still a Bard, still a full-caster, and still an enormous support. Increasing Initiative, moving allies, healing, and spells, spells, spells. However, they don't replace a monk in offense, defense, or mobility.
The question has never been “Does Dance Bard punch and move better than Monk.”

It’s always been “is it better to be a full caster while also getting to punch stuff rather than be a Monk.”

This also ignores the fact that Bards can turn spell slots into inspiration starting at 5.

Point is, comparing them like this isn’t helpful. Especially taking into account Monk features outside their unarmed strike while ignoring the Bards Spellcasting.
 

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The question has never been “Does Dance Bard punch and move better than Monk.”

It’s always been “is it better to be a full caster while also getting to punch stuff rather than be a Monk.”

This also ignores the fact that Bards can turn spell slots into inspiration starting at 5.

Point is, comparing them like this isn’t helpful. Especially taking into account Monk features outside their unarmed strike while ignoring the Bards Spellcasting.
what the comparison clear shows is....the dance bard doesn't stomp the monk in its home territory, aka its not out monking the monk.

Now sure the dance bard will have cool spells and support abilities and I'm sure will be a hell of a fun to play. But its playstyle will be completely different from the monk, and that's the point.
 

Well, they’ve made some improvements but I think they’re fatally hamstrung by the decision not to just junk the fatally flawed 2014 bard and start again from scratch. Bards shouldnt be full casters, and bardic abilities being completely divorced from the Performance skill (or other skills, in the case of niche bards like Eloquence) is just ridiculous.

There’s a common saying about the futility of polishing certain objects which seems appropriate here.
 
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The question has never been “Does Dance Bard punch and move better than Monk.”

It’s always been “is it better to be a full caster while also getting to punch stuff rather than be a Monk.”

This also ignores the fact that Bards can turn spell slots into inspiration starting at 5.

Point is, comparing them like this isn’t helpful. Especially taking into account Monk features outside their unarmed strike while ignoring the Bards Spellcasting.
The issue is the Dance Bards' punches are below baseline.

The Dance Bard is not a good warrior unless they concentrate on a good spell on themselves

The Dance Bard is mostly a Bard. It won't replace anything you bring a Monk for baring speed via haste.
 

Well, they’ve made some improvements but I think they’re fatally hamstrung by the decision not to just junk the fatally flawed 2014 bard and start again from scratch. Bards shouldnt be full casters, and bardic abilities being completely divorced from the Performance skill (or other skills, in the case of niche bards like Eloquence).

There’s a common saying about the futility of polishing certain objects which seems appropriate here.
Whereas I think the 5e bard was the best bard class in D&D so far. The 1e bard was unplayable, the 2e bard was basically a fighter mage thief without all the good parts, stripped, 3e was a joke, and 3.5 was passable. I can't make a strong comment on 4e's. At least this bard feels like an actual member of the party and not the kid brother doing "me too" while everyone else does things better.
 

Well, they’ve made some improvements but I think they’re fatally hamstrung by the decision not to just junk the fatally flawed 2014 bard and start again from scratch. Bards shouldnt be full casters, and bardic abilities being completely divorced from the Performance skill (or other skills, in the case of niche bards like Eloquence).

There’s a common saying about the futility of polishing certain objects which seems appropriate here.
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In all seriousness, I felt like Bards were unplayable before 5e. Now I'm actually excited to play one.
 

The issue is the Dance Bards' punches are below baseline.

The Dance Bard is not a good warrior unless they concentrate on a good spell on themselves

The Dance Bard is mostly a Bard. It won't replace anything you bring a Monk for baring speed via haste.
That’s how it should be. They are still a full caster. The Dance Bards punching shouldn’t be equal to a Monk because the Monk can’t just drop Hypnotic Pattern on their enemies when they want.
 

Dance Bards and Valor Bards might be more likely to cast Foresight at the beginning of the day, as soon as they get access to 9th level spells. Even though Foresight is often thought of as being the weakest 9th level spell. It's advantage to everything and disadvantage to get hit, while requiring no concentration. It might be useful if you're a Bard that likes to fight in melee, but by that level there just might be other things that give advantage and disadvantage and don't cost as much.
 



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