D&D 5E (2014) With Only 4 Ability Scores, How Would You Handle Spellcasting Abilities (+)

[pawsplay]

GURPS has Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Health. Virtually all GURPS magic is based on Intelligence. Some variants allow you to use Will instead, which is a derived secondary value. So that's probably what I would do.

 

[Li Shenron]

Although tagged 5E, this could be applied to earlier editions I sure. The basic premise is this:

Many times I've seen people lament the six ability scores, thinking only four would really be needed. A common idea is combining Strength and Constitution, as well as Intelligence and possibly Wisdom.

While thinking about this today, it occured to me if someone went this route, which ability scores would you tie in to each class for use in spellcasting?

As an example, let's say you changed the six ability score to four in this manner:

• Charisma (same)
• Dexterity (same)
• Might (was Str & Con)
• Savvy (was Intelligence and Wisdom)

Then the 5E spellcasting classes would have to pick from just these four:

• Bard - Charisma
• Cleric - Savvy
• Druid- Savvy
• Sorcerer - Charisma (or Might?)
• Warlock- Charisma
• Wizard- Savvy

And of course we have Paladin and Ranger to consider as well.

So, what FOUR ability scores would you create/use, and which would the spellcasters use for spellcasting?

Well, there is fundamentally NO reason why spellcasting should be tied to an ability score at all costs. Other RPGs use a standalone "magic" score, or nothing at all. Character level already serves the purpose of creating difference in spellcasting power between characters. D&D uses ability score bonuses to affect spellcasting mostly because of tradition, as a tax in character building (particularly multiclassing).

What you did there is the simplest thing to keep up with tradition: if you merge Int and Wis into one, any character who used either will now use the merged score. I don't see why doing otherwise.

 

[ECMO3]

Although tagged 5E, this could be applied to earlier editions I sure. The basic premise is this:

Many times I've seen people lament the six ability scores, thinking only four would really be needed. A common idea is combining Strength and Constitution, as well as Intelligence and possibly Wisdom.

While thinking about this today, it occured to me if someone went this route, which ability scores would you tie in to each class for use in spellcasting?

As an example, let's say you changed the six ability score to four in this manner:

• Charisma (same)
• Dexterity (same)
• Might (was Str & Con)
• Savvy (was Intelligence and Wisdom)

Then the 5E spellcasting classes would have to pick from just these four:

• Bard - Charisma
• Cleric - Savvy
• Druid- Savvy
• Sorcerer - Charisma (or Might?)
• Warlock- Charisma
• Wizard- Savvy

And of course we have Paladin and Ranger to consider as well.

So, what FOUR ability scores would you create/use, and which would the spellcasters use for spellcasting?

Strength, Dexterity, Constitution and Intelligence. Then I would eliminate all full casters except Wizards.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I'd just carry the classes over with their scores:

Charisma: bards, paladins, sorcerers, warlocks
Savvy: artificers, clerics, druids, monks, rangers, wizards

That's fine, although if you want a balance of five and five one could move cleric to charisma without really changing the flavor too much (though I'd add in a white mage wizard subclass for bookish clerics).

 

[Guest 7037866]

I'd just carry the classes over with their scores:

Charisma: bards, paladins, sorcerers, warlocks
Savvy: artificers, clerics, druids, monks, rangers, wizards

That's fine, although if you want a balance of five and five one could move cleric to charisma without really changing the flavor too much (though I'd add in a white mage wizard subclass for bookish clerics).

I fixed the mistake in your post.

 

[Horwath]

I wouldn't have them at all. They just force characters to be optimised along predictable routes and take away the possibility for characters to have certain kinds of weaknesses. Just keep stats for normal skill checks and have all attacks and save DCs solely a factor of one's level.

Variant similar to this is to replace ability modifiers for ALL attacks, damage, saves, AC and DC with proficiency bonus.

non proficient attack; proficiency bonus
proficient attack: 2×proficiency bonus
damage; proficiency bonus, 2×proficiency for Heavy, 2-Handed melee weapons
ALL DCs: 8+2×proficiency bonus
AC: 8+armor bonus+proficiency bonus(if proficient with armor worn)
Non proficient save: proficiency bonus
proficient save: 2×proficiency bonus

 

[NotAYakk]

• Charisma (same)
• Dexterity (same)
• Might (was Str & Con)
• Savvy (was Intelligence and Wisdom)

Definitely not these 4.

Might
Dexterity
Savvy
for sure. But Charisma wouldn't be just Charisma. It would include Luck and Willpower and Fate.

I'd rename Charisma as such:

Might: Strength, Endurance, Toughness
Dexterity: Agility, Adeptness, Reflexes
Savvy: Knowledge, Intuition, Perception
Fortune: Charisma, Willpower, Luck

The next thing I'd try to do is think about melee combat.

Knowing what the opponent is about to do is Savvy.
The Power of your response is limited by Might.
Precision and Speed of the response is Dexterity.
Luck lets you deal with failure without it being ruinous.

For spellcasting:
Using magic is physically draining (might)
Magic requires precise gestures (dexterity)
Manipulating the magical recipe in real time is mentally difficult (savvy)
Keeping it all together requires mental fortitude (fortune)

A game system that moved away from HP attrition, and towards positional advantage and coups, might be interesting. Your turn would consist of either improving your position relative to a foe, and/or attempting a finishing blow; it being deadly combat, you'd almost always be trying to connect with a finishing blow, but realistically you'd expect it to be defended. At the same time, mooks (relative to your skill level) are dropped by your initial attack, while a skilled foe is just put at disadvantage from an initial attack.

The same could be made true about magic. Most non-mooks don't get defeated in your opening volley.

...

I sort of like a setup and execute mechanic.

Your turn is then split between Setting up a new gambit, Executing a finished gambit, and Responding to enemy gambits.

Spells might work the same way.

You start to cast a spell. This requires a dexterity check (get the gestures right), and causes fatigue damage (might).

The spell needs to be modified to deal with new circumstances - a savvy check.
You are distracted while casting - a fortune check.

You execute the spell. A savvy check to do final tweaks. And your willpower (fortune) modifies the size of the effect.

The spell can now act like an independent gambit. Each creature under its effect needs to respond to it.

 

[DeviousQuail]

My homebrew game uses Might, Reflex, Mind, and Will already so I'll use them here.

Spoiler: In depth breakdown

The four attributes each have two skills that add together to make the attribute score.
Might = Brawn + Toughness
Reflex = Athletics + Agility
Mind = Intelligence + Cunning
Will = Awareness + Resolve

Brawn - (Lift + carry), (push + pull), break
Toughness - HP, endurance, recovery
Athletics - (Run + jump), swim, climb
Agility - Acrobatics, stealth, escape
Intellect - Analyze, recall, investigate
Cunning - Insight, quick talk, streetwise
Awareness - Senses, hand-eye coord, (initiative + reaction)
Resolve - Force of personality, leadership, recovery

Might and Reflex don't really lend themselves too well to casting magic. I see them more as secondary boosts to magic. For instance, a Bigby's Hand spell could add your Might to the damage it deals. Mind and Will are big umbrellas that roughly translate to spellcasting via knowledge vs internal drive. Applying it to DnD type classes I would go:

Mind: Wizard, Artificer, Warlock, Psion, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, Psi Knight

Will: Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Sorcerer, Ranger, Monk, Rune Knight

 

[CreamCloud0]

Might - determines the average tier of your spell slots and number of additional spell slots
Technique - determines your spell attack modifier/DC and capacity for metamagics
Understanding - determines the max tier of your spells known and number of additional spells known
Will - determines your magical save bonuses and concentration DC

 

[ichabod]

I now want to make an RPG with 4 stats: Might, Will, Would, and Could.