Wand of Cu Light vs Wand of Vigor, Lesser

[tomBitonti]

Hi,

My group just noticed that a cure light wand (@ 1st level) will do 1d8+1 points of
healing (average 5.5) vs. a want of vigor lesser (@ 1st level) doing 11 points
(10 rounds + 1 round/level), exactly twice as much.

In combat, there is a need for quick healing, so the cure light wand has a use, but outside
of combat the wand of vigor, lesser is (seems to me) clearly superior.

Further, the third level spell vigor, lesser, mass, cast by a 5th level caster does
15 points of healing, times two if there is another person needing the healing.
(Btw, can you target this twice to the same character?) Cure serious does what,
3d8 + 5 points? So 30 points for the mass vigor compared to 17.5 for the cure serious.

Two questions:

Are the figures above correct?

Does this seem unbalanced?

And a third, has this arisen before on the board?

Thx,

TFB

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In combat, there is a need for quick healing, so the cure light wand has a use, but outside
of combat the wand of vigor, lesser is (seems to me) clearly superior.

There's your answer.

If you need healing *now*, then a Cure X Wounds spell is your answer.

If you've got a couple minutes, then a Vigor spell is your answer.

EDIT:

Also, more classes can use wands of CXW than can use Vigor.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Also, more classes can use wands of CXW than can use Vigor.

This was noted in our group, too. It was thought best if paladins, rangers and bards could use a healing wand in cases of emergency, not just the clerics and druids.

 

[tomBitonti]

There's your answer.

If you need healing *now*, then a Cure X Wounds spell is your answer.

If you've got a couple minutes, then a Vigor spell is your answer.

EDIT:

Also, more classes can use wands of CXW than can use Vigor.

Yes, definitely, in combat, the cure spells are what are needed.

I'm not understanding that CXW is more usable than Vigor, Lesser, as both
are Cleric 1, aren't they? Because of the ability to spontaineously convert to
a cure spell?

My cleric has a wand of Cu Li and a wand of Vigor, Lesser, and the wand of
Vigor, Lesser, well, rocks.

At 8'th level, with augmented healing, my cleric does (10 + 8 + 6) * 3 points of
healing (total == 72 points) with a single casting of Mass Lesser Vigor (total is
spread across three seperate targets), compared with 3d8 + 8 + 6 == 27.5 for cure
moderate.

Thx.

TFB

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Yes, definitely, in combat, the cure spells are what are needed.

I'm not understanding that CXW is more usable than Vigor, Lesser, as both
are Cleric 1, aren't they? Because of the ability to spontaineously convert to
a cure spell?

Yes and no. A cleric can certainly convert any prepared spell into an appropriate CXW spell (CXW meaning Cure Light Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, etc.). He can't convert to a Vigor spell, which means that he must prepare them ahead of time.

What I was getting at, however, is that Cure Light Wounds (along with many of its brothers) is on the spell list of multiple classes: Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Bard, etc. Accordingly, any of those classes can pick up and use a wand of CLW. Vigor is Cleric-only (or Cleric- and Druid-only), which means that fewer people can use that particular wand.

Thus, an extra wand or two of CLW in the hands of the other members of the party is an excellent back-up plan, a safety net for when the cleric cops one.

 

[Diirk]

Splat Book power creep. One thing you might want to think about, why exactly is lesser vigor, mass a 3rd level spell? cure light wounds, mass is 5th level...

As to the useability issue, they're both equally useable by your cleric sure... but if your cleric got knocked unconcious, then a ranger could use your cure light wounds wand to bring you back up, but he couldn't use your vigor wand.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

The vigor spells used to only heal damage taken after the spell was cast. It was a big limiting factor. That language was, perhaps inadvertently, dropped for the 3.5 version, and the spells are now pretty clearly superior "clean up after the fight" spells.

 

[sfedi]

That spell is totally broken.

Not as much as others, but sufficiently so as to be banned in my campaigns.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That spell is totally broken.

Not as much as others

Ponder the juxtaposition of these two bits of text.

Lesser Vigor is totally broken.

There are things which are more broken.

Therefore, there are things which are more than totally broken. Does that mean that they were totally broken, and then broken again?

Seriously, I don't see how you can argue that the Vigor line of spells is totally broken. Is it more useful than CLW out of combat? Yes, but then CLW is more useful than Vigor inside of combat. It's a trade-off - can you afford to wait 5 rounds before getting the average benefit of what you could have had *right now*?

 

[Len]

Lesser Vigor is a great spell, but the slow healing is a real drawback. We rely on Cure spells to keep us going in combat, and Vigor spells just don't do that. That plus the spontaneous casting thing and the fact that my ranger can use CLW wands mean that the Cure spells still get lots of use in our games even though we've been using the Vigor spells for quite a while now.

And since we still use Cure a lot, Vigor isn't broken. QED.