D&D 1E Treasure "hidden by invisibility"

[Hriston]

I'm using the random dungeon generation system in the DMG and rolled up a treasure contained in small coffers and "hidden by invisibility". I'm wondering what the intent might be. Are the coffers themselves to be considered invisible objects, or are they merely found within an area of invisibility? Would the invisibility be dispelled once interacted with? Any other thoughts?

 

[GMMichael]

I'm using the random dungeon generation system in the DMG and rolled up a treasure contained in small coffers and "hidden by invisibility". I'm wondering what the intent might be. Are the coffers themselves to be considered invisible objects, or are they merely found within an area of invisibility? Would the invisibility be dispelled once interacted with? Any other thoughts?

The "hidden" part is disappointing. I'd like to see "revealed by invisibility," meaning that there's an invisible wall that allows the treasure to be seen, but the PCs just have no good way to get to it!

Likely, the coffers are invisible, which renders the contents invisible as long as the coffers are closed, and interacting with one allows the coffer to be seen by the interactor. It might still appear blurry or translucent as long as the magic is in effect.

 

[aco175]

Ah, the classic 1e gotcha moment when you opened a room and the DM said there was nothing inside so you just went to the next. You should have taken the Explore Pattern Delta procedure and known that you needed to use your 10ft pole to prod the ground by the door looking for traps before checking the ceiling for traps and only then, you can enter a room. Then you need to 10ft pole around the rest of the floor before checking the walls without touching them in case of contact poison. If done right, you could have found the invisible jars with the gold. However, you just moved on so not only do you not get the gold, you also get screwed since GP=XP. Double gotcha!

 

[Mannahnin]

I'm using the random dungeon generation system in the DMG and rolled up a treasure contained in small coffers and "hidden by invisibility". I'm wondering what the intent might be. Are the coffers themselves to be considered invisible objects, or are they merely found within an area of invisibility? Would the invisibility be dispelled once interacted with? Any other thoughts?

My understanding is that the treasure (in containers) is itself invisible. Invisibility in OD&D and AD&D is permanent until the subject attacks, so it's permanent on inanimate objects, and thus a useful longterm way to hide treasure. I would assume it'd usually be cast on the containers.

I like GMMichael's idea of using invisibility to make treasure visible but inaccessible, though I'd file that under Tricks when stocking.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Ah, the classic 1e gotcha moment when you opened a room and the DM said there was nothing inside so you just went to the next. You should have taken the Explore Pattern Delta procedure and known that you needed to use your 10ft pole to prod the ground by the door looking for traps before checking the ceiling for traps and only then, you can enter a room. Then you need to 10ft pole around the rest of the floor before checking the walls without touching them in case of contact poison. If done right, you could have found the invisible jars with the gold. However, you just moved on so not only do you not get the gold, you also get screwed since GP=XP. Double gotcha!

Yeah, pretty much this. There isn't even a variation on invisibility (that I know of) that can make objects invisible, so it's pretty much DM fiat that it's invisible, not any spell or item that makes it invisible. Aaaaaand, I take issue with published modules or DM-created adventures where treasure is not just concealed, but made all but impossible to ever find without LITERALLY tearing every room of every dungeon apart and demolishing all contents in order to find the treasure that is put there.

It's a waste of time to make loot so impossible to find. It's a waste of time to just make it hard enough to find that you are actually motivating players to waste greater amounts of added time trying to FIND it. Putting invisible treasure in a room is an open admission that YOU WANT players to search rooms with Explore Pattern Delta (or the equivalent - we used to refer to it as S.O.P. searching). That is the only reason (that I can fathom) to hide treasure in that way as part of the game world YOU present to the players. You certainly don't put treasure in the game specifically so that it CAN'T be found (because the PC's NOT finding it is... fun?), yet the more difficult you make it TO be found, the more you're indicating that the relentless search for impossible to find treasure IS an important part of the game. Because you're spending the time and effort to place it there in the first place, you must therefore logically expect players to have their PC's expend as much or more effort to find it. Right?

"Gotcha" gaming sucks, and there's pretty easy-to-see reasons why nobody wants to play that way anymore. Arguing about whether the individual coins in the containers are invisible, or if it's the containers themselves that are invisible... that's missing the point.

 

[Lanefan]

Is invisibility even cast-able on inanimate objects in 1e as written? <checks handy PH> Nope. "Area of effect: Creature touched."

But then in true Gygax form he goes on to confuse the issue in the spell's write-up by talking about high-level intelligent creatures' ability to detect invisible objects - sigh.....

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Isn't that what's meant by having EGG on your face?

 

[Krachek]

The intent is to be able to tell the players after the session,
“I’m sorry to say that, but you miss a treasure!”

 

[aco175]

The intent is to be able to tell the players after the session,
“I’m sorry to say that, but you miss a treasure!”

Back in 1e days, a good, antagonist DM needed to laugh at the players first.

 

[ilgatto]

And then, of course, there's this, in D&D Men & Magic (1974):

Detect Invisible (Objects): A spell to find secreted treasure hidden by an Invisibility spell (see below). It will also locate invisible creatures. Durations: 6 turns. Range: 1" x the level of the Magic-User casting it, i.e. a "Wizard" would have a range of 11", more if he was above the base value.

Invisibility: A spell which lasts until it is broken by the user or by some outside force (remember that as in CHAINMAIL, a character cannot remain invisible and attack). It affects only the person or thing upon whom or which it is cast. Range: 24"