D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Vaalingrade]

Humans are explicitly positioned as

Because your are using fantastic as a broad blanket that covers things that are extraordinary compared a non fantastic world.

That... is the meaning of Fantasy.

The problem is... that's not the meaning of magic.

This is like squares and rectangles. Magic is fantastic, but not all fantastic things are magical.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It has nothing to do with the door, just seeing the people do it would clue me in. Now, if I couldn't also jump 15' in the air (which I can't) I would also assume those people are extraordinary (aka supernatural, aka magical); and if I could suddenly jump 15' in the air (all else being equal) I would assume I had become extraordinary as well.

Is that really difficult to understand.

It's difficult because 'extraordinary', 'supernautral' and 'magical' are not 'AKA's' of each other.

A ghost is supernatural without being magical.

An owlbear is extraordinary without being supernautral.

The weird thing is, I'm not sure I can pinpoint when we lost that. sometime during 4e when people were trying to debunk martial powers, perhaps? Some time in 5e? 3e made a clear distinction, so it can't be that far back.

 

[Gammadoodler]

And you have made mine: the setting is extraordinary (aka magical, aka supernatural)

It's a fantasy setting. The definition of fantasy specifically calls out things that are unrealistic or improbable.

Fantastic stuff happens there..Why would anyone expect otherwise?

 

[Micah Sweet]

if the setting itself is extraordinary, then the fighter or rogue who are in it, when they themselves do extraordinary things, like punching through steel plate or dodging all the damage of a fireball without moving out the radius, are merely ordinary in the setting, and don't need magic or supernatural abilities to do so.

They do from the perspective of the players, which is what I've been talking about this whole time.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's a fantasy setting. The definition of fantasy specifically calls out things that are unrealistic or improbable.

Fantastic stuff happens there..Why would anyone expect otherwise?

Again, IMO "It's fantasy, so anything goes and everyone should already know that" should not just be assumed, and it certainly isn't the fault of the reader or the player if they don't assume it.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Again, IMO "It's fantasy, so anything goes and everyone should already know that" should not just be assumed, and it certainly isn't the fault of the reader or the player if they don't assume it.

It isn't their fault for not understanding the literal definition of the word fantasy and applying that definition to their expectations for a fantasy roleplaying game?

Agree to disagree.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It isn't their fault for not understanding the literal definition of the word fantasy and applying that definition to their expectations for a fantasy roleplaying game?

Agree to disagree.

Now this is just insulting to anyone who doesn't share your view.

 

[CreamCloud0]

They do from the perspective of the players, which is what I've been talking about this whole time.

please check you aren't applying your own personal opinions on 'what is required' to everyone else

 

[Gammadoodler]

Now this is just insulting to anyone who doesn't share your view.

Ok..I will amend a couple things from the previous post.

They might not know the definition of the word fantasy through no fault of their own. Good news. That is in the dictionary and can be provided.

They, somehow, might not know that D&D is a fantasy roleplaying game. I think that's already pretty clear from everything down from the cover of the book through to the end of the introduction. Nothing more should need to be established there other than that players should look at the stuff.

If, after receiving the definition for the word fantasy and the knowledge that D&D is a fantasy RPG, they insist upon using real world expectations to guide what "should" be possible in the game mechanics..

..then that is acting in defiance to what the genre and the game says about themselves.

Edit: if I go to the pool and someone hands me a pool toy, it's my fault if I insist they spray it with a hose before I can use it in the pool (or else it wouldn't be wet)

 

[dave2008]

It's difficult because 'extraordinary', 'supernautral' and 'magical' are not 'AKA's' of each other.

A ghost is supernatural without being magical.

An owlbear is extraordinary without being supernautral.

I disagree with your assessment. Though they are not exact, they are pretty close.

For me: a ghost is magical / supernatural / extraordinary. An owlbear is a little iffy, but I think a D&D dragon is: magical / supernatural / extraordinary