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stupidity and monte haul gaming
- Thread starter fl8m
- Start date
Paladin
Explorer
My two coppers: In the armor descriptions, you said they have "hasted" armor. I assume you're referring to the Speed enhancement from DotF. If so, although it hasn't officially been errated yet, the designers have figured out that Speed should not be a +3 enhancement, but instead a +7. That would allow you to re-engineer their armor, with a good excuse....just blame it on the designer!
Rust Monsters make effective armor and weapon destroyers, and the spell Rusting Grasp works well too (hint- since it's a 4th level spell, you can have a wand of it, negating the need to actually touch these powerhouses). The players can't gripe too much if they are stupid enough to smack a rust monster with that +10 weapon! Without the Everbright enhancement (MGoF), their armor and weapons don't stand much of a chance against a group of these metal-eaters.
Mord's Disjunction is the easy way out, but most players feel cheated that one spell nuked everything they own. From the SRD: "and permanent magic items must make successful Will saves or be turned into normal items. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher." IMO, with characters of this level, their items would most likely make the needed saves.
Rust Monsters make effective armor and weapon destroyers, and the spell Rusting Grasp works well too (hint- since it's a 4th level spell, you can have a wand of it, negating the need to actually touch these powerhouses). The players can't gripe too much if they are stupid enough to smack a rust monster with that +10 weapon! Without the Everbright enhancement (MGoF), their armor and weapons don't stand much of a chance against a group of these metal-eaters.
Mord's Disjunction is the easy way out, but most players feel cheated that one spell nuked everything they own. From the SRD: "and permanent magic items must make successful Will saves or be turned into normal items. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher." IMO, with characters of this level, their items would most likely make the needed saves.
Winged Spider
First Post
One word.....
Water
Water
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
I'd be careful about taking away their toys. It's more fun to face power-level-appropriate challenges than it is to have one's power level reduced.
Putting them in situations in which fancy armor doesn't help is a good idea, if not used too often. Also, figure that if these 15th-level PCs have equipment this good, so do 15th-level NPCs. Read Piratecat's story hour for ideas both on how to throw PCs in dangerous political situations and how to use scary tactics against high-level characters.
NPCs should be scrying the PCs before battles, so that they know how best to strike. They should be casting divinations and communes. They should therefore wade into battle with protection from acid and protection from fire, do avoid those nasty weapons the PCs have.
And they should have some ideas on how to handle your PCs. Antimagic fields are great. Strength-sapping poisons may be nice (PCs walking around with 200 lbs of gear will have trouble when their strength approaches the single digits). Grappling the PCs will prevent them from using their nasty weapons.
And did you know that rust monsters' rusting touch ability is extraordinary? That means they retain the ability to rust metal even when they're polymorphed into a more innocent form. Would it just be sad if a bunch of cute fuzzy puppies ran up to you, and you bent down to pet them, and instead of nuzzling you they jumped up and headbutted your armor, and your armor sloughed off? Bad guys can arrange for this to happen.
That goes against my overall suggestion of ramping up challenges instead of ramping down their items. But a little bit of that kind of nastiness is fine, and fun -- it makes you hate the bad guys.
And I'd definitely suggest doing something to get rid of the haste armor. That stuff is insane.
Daniel
Putting them in situations in which fancy armor doesn't help is a good idea, if not used too often. Also, figure that if these 15th-level PCs have equipment this good, so do 15th-level NPCs. Read Piratecat's story hour for ideas both on how to throw PCs in dangerous political situations and how to use scary tactics against high-level characters.
NPCs should be scrying the PCs before battles, so that they know how best to strike. They should be casting divinations and communes. They should therefore wade into battle with protection from acid and protection from fire, do avoid those nasty weapons the PCs have.
And they should have some ideas on how to handle your PCs. Antimagic fields are great. Strength-sapping poisons may be nice (PCs walking around with 200 lbs of gear will have trouble when their strength approaches the single digits). Grappling the PCs will prevent them from using their nasty weapons.
And did you know that rust monsters' rusting touch ability is extraordinary? That means they retain the ability to rust metal even when they're polymorphed into a more innocent form. Would it just be sad if a bunch of cute fuzzy puppies ran up to you, and you bent down to pet them, and instead of nuzzling you they jumped up and headbutted your armor, and your armor sloughed off? Bad guys can arrange for this to happen.
That goes against my overall suggestion of ramping up challenges instead of ramping down their items. But a little bit of that kind of nastiness is fine, and fun -- it makes you hate the bad guys.
And I'd definitely suggest doing something to get rid of the haste armor. That stuff is insane.
Daniel
Mishihari Lord
First Post
I had a problem like this once. The party ran into a high-level group of slavers while they were on the way home from a dungeon and depleted. They were captured, and I ran a series of three adventures:
1) escaping the slavers and getting back to civilization through some very wild and tough terrain without their equipment.
2) getting back their equipment through a combination of theft, robbery, and negotiation after much of it was auctioned off
3) revenge on the slaver-lord that did them wrong. The players loved this part
On #2, there was a time constraint (the city was politically unstable and very dangerous to foregners, headed towards civil war) so the players only got back 5 or 6 of their items each. Items that had really caused problems were "sold to a merchant ship's captain" and very difficult to recover.
I think this was my players' favorite adventure ever.
1) escaping the slavers and getting back to civilization through some very wild and tough terrain without their equipment.
2) getting back their equipment through a combination of theft, robbery, and negotiation after much of it was auctioned off
3) revenge on the slaver-lord that did them wrong. The players loved this part
On #2, there was a time constraint (the city was politically unstable and very dangerous to foregners, headed towards civil war) so the players only got back 5 or 6 of their items each. Items that had really caused problems were "sold to a merchant ship's captain" and very difficult to recover.
I think this was my players' favorite adventure ever.
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wow thank you for all the great ideas, the campaign is in FR and with a few adjustments i'm running the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. They picked up most of thier equipment on side-quests. They have made quite a few enemies, a 17th lvl vampire necromancer, an ancient green dragon who telepported away at 6 hp, and a Beholder cult who ran them out of calimport (to get them to actually go to the temple 
)
I was thinking of using Mord's disjunction but i didn't want a save or lose all your stuff situation. i love the idea of the polymorphed rust monster, and the wand of rusting grasp.. the party already has a healthy hatred for rust monsters.
I have to agree the hasted armor is insane, an extra partial action each round for a rogue is another sneakattack and that is usually devestating.
so i think i'll try out some of those ideas for political situations, being stuck in the temple for the last 3 months has left them almost completely without any social interaction. conveniently they both recently picked up the leadership feat so i have room for all kinds of torment when thier followers start showing up.
) I was thinking of using Mord's disjunction but i didn't want a save or lose all your stuff situation. i love the idea of the polymorphed rust monster, and the wand of rusting grasp.. the party already has a healthy hatred for rust monsters.
I have to agree the hasted armor is insane, an extra partial action each round for a rogue is another sneakattack and that is usually devestating.
so i think i'll try out some of those ideas for political situations, being stuck in the temple for the last 3 months has left them almost completely without any social interaction. conveniently they both recently picked up the leadership feat so i have room for all kinds of torment when thier followers start showing up.
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