D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Bard

[Marandahir]

Unless you have a dedicated healbot who is wasting their slots on healing just on principle... I don't see how you can avoid short rests. They are how you heal.

Well, I can see it if you know you will only ever have one fight per day and then go back to sleep right after. But that's a bit of a unique script that the GM has to choose to follow every day. Days like that may well occasionally happen, but to be so sure of it? Just seems weird.

That’s the 5MWD. Some players feel entitled to it, and are angry when the DM doesn’t let them go back to sleep after nova’ing all their spells in one encounter.

Far more problematic than short rests is the urge to long rest between every encounter.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That’s the 5MWD. Some players feel entitled to it, and are angry when the DM doesn’t let them go back to sleep after nova’ing all their spells in one encounter.

Far more problematic than short rests is the urge to long rest between every encounter.

Because the game is designed that way; to make novaing the best option and then making not immediately resting a terrible idea.

 

[Marandahir]

Because the game is designed that way; to make novaing the best option and then making not immediately resting a terrible idea.

Right, hence why short rests exist at all…

Just because the game is broken in favour of 5MWD doesn’t mean you get rid of the incentives to not 5MWD… I’ve been so frustrated by the push to replace X per Short Rest features with Proficiency Bonus per Long Rest features… this packet actually brings back meaningful short test features. Now we just need meaningful reasons for ALL characters to want short rests.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Unless you have a dedicated healbot who is wasting their slots on healing just on principle... I don't see how you can avoid short rests. They are how you heal.

We don't take much "real" damage. Lore bard with cutting words, champion with interception, heavy armor master, liberal use of mirror image, blur, Entangle, Protection vs Good/Evil, and other things that reduce attackers' ability mean we don't take as many hits and avoid a lot of crits. Those are mostly low level spells so using a few each fight is not an issue.

We get temp hp from Leadership (only takes 10m), the bard has a Staff of Healing and both the Paladin and life cleric can do a lot of non-spell healing, so not a lot of spell slots used for healing.

Net result is we only take short rests when the monk or warlock burned through resources faster than everyone else.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Right, hence why short rests exist at all…

Just because the game is broken in favour of 5MWD doesn’t mean you get rid of the incentives to not 5MWD… I’ve been so frustrated by the push to replace X per Short Rest features with Proficiency Bonus per Long Rest features… this packet actually brings back meaningful short test features. Now we just need meaningful reasons for ALL characters to want short rests.

One day. one beautiful day, we will be rid of Daily abilities and the 5MWD entirely.

 

[Stalker0]

One day. one beautiful day, we will be rid of Daily abilities and the 5MWD entirely.

There is some appeal to switch from a daily system into all "encounter" type abilities, that recharge after a few minutes of rest.

What you would probably do then is having certain monster abilities that hinder your recovery (simple example, maybe a condition that prevents you from healing for 4 hours). This allows the DM the ability to do "attrition combat" once in a while, but the rest of the time they have a full party that has no desire to rest all the time, and one where their power level is consistant and so easy to set challenges for.

 

[Marandahir]

One day. one beautiful day, we will be rid of Daily abilities and the 5MWD entirely.

I'm not sure I love the idea of 9th level spell slots recharging on short rest, though.

I think there's a role for long rests and very long rests (extended downtime), but it all needs to be very very carefully balanced.

I think some guidance in the DMG of # of Encounters / Short Rest, # Short Rests / Long Rest, # of Long Rests / Extended Downtime would be very much desired. Maybe can be split out by easy, moderate, and hard encounters, too, or even by party's class make-up.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm not sure I love the idea of 9th level spell slots recharging on short rest, though.

I think there's a role for long rests and very long rests (extended downtime), but it all needs to be very very carefully balanced.

I think some guidance in the DMG of # of Encounters / Short Rest, # Short Rests / Long Rest, # of Long Rests / Extended Downtime would be very much desired. Maybe can be split out by easy, moderate, and hard encounters, too, or even by party's class make-up.

Short rest spell points can cast slot 9.

When the points are level+1, and each point is worth a slot level, then at level 17, the 18 points cast a slot 9 spell twice. But then that it. No more spells during the rest of the combats until completing a short rest. Normally, it is worth while to cast the highest slot once, and then use the rest of the points for the lower slots.

 

[Marandahir]

Short rest spell points can cast slot 9.

When the points are level+1, and each point is worth a slot level, then at level 17, the 18 points cast a slot 9 spell twice. But then that it. No more spells during the rest of the combats until completing a short rest. Normally, it is worth while to cast the highest slot once, and then use the rest of the points for the lower slots.

Yeah, Spell Points might be an answer if we wanted to get rid of LR recharges entirely.

I just don't think D&D will abandon Vancian Magic for Spell Points as a default.

 

[Yaarel]

Yeah, Spell Points might be an answer if we wanted to get rid of LR recharges entirely.

I just don't think D&D will abandon Vancian Magic for Spell Points as a default.

I suspect a short rest spell point "variant" in the 2024 DMs Guide for every caster would be a popular option.

Nothing is simpler and easier for a newb or a casual. Points. Cast. Rest. Repeat. And so balanced.