Monk's UBAB and multiclassing

[graydoom]

Weird... looking at the PHB again, on page 55, it does say that a monk10/wizard7 can take the first attack at +10, then +4 and +1. I didn't look closely enough at that, I guess....

Sigh. Bizarre rule, imo. Oh well.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Hong uses the OA rule, which is correct for OA and makes the most sense of any major rule. (And yes, you can choose to use BAB instead of UBAB. It's legit both for OA and the PH method.)

The other examples are correct by the PH; they make less sense but are core.

My generators use the PH version, because it's core and OGL'd.

 

[graydoom]

Hong uses the OA rule, which is correct for OA and makes the most sense of any major rule. (And yes, you can choose to use BAB instead of UBAB. It's legit both for OA and the PH method.)

The other examples are correct by the PH; they make less sense but are core.

My generators use the PH version, because it's core and OGL'd.

Actually, it seems to me that the PHB and OA versions are the same. The PHB notes that for additional attacks you choose between UAB and BAB, but for the first attack you make it at the combined BAB. It is the additional attacks that you choose between UAB monk additional attacks and combined BAB additional attacks.

From the SRD
Base Attack Bonus: The monk is a special case because her additional unarmed attacks are better than her base attack bonus would suggest. For a multiclass monk fighting unarmed, the character must either use the additional attacks given for her monk levels (only) or the additional attacks that are standard for her combined base attack bonus, but not both.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

i'm just gonna chime in here and say that my previous post is in relation to the rules as they were "clarified" by the sage (i believe). the official faq seems to support this method, too.

however, i do agree that it is not in line with the rules as presented in the phb (and apparently oriental adventures).

also, i do agree that a multi-classed monk should get something out of their other classes in regards to ubab. the "book method" definitely seems reasonable, if only a slight bit more difficult to grasp at first. but honestly, that's what i would use.

 

[Darkness]

I've tried to make sense of that several times, and it just doesn't seem right to me.

A 4th level monk has a +3 BAB and a +3 UBAB. A 2nd level fighter, according to every source I've read, has +2 BAB and a +0 UBAB. Every class, except for prestige classes that specifically say otherwise (and maybe some of the classes in OA, which I haven't read all the way through) have no bonus to UBAB at all.

So, basically, unless I've missed something somewhere, a multiclassed monk is going to have a lousy UBAB. That pretty much kills most Fighter/Monk combos.

Again, unless I've missed something.

The only thing you've missed is that the UBAB does increase; only the additional attacks don't increase.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

How is this for a succinct explanation:

All classes have UBAB.

As a class, level dependant, feature of the monk (and other monk classes), you gain extra attacks sooner.

So a 7th level monk, as a class feature, gets an extra unarmed attack at +2.

So if he multiclasses, while unarmed he can still take this extra attack at +2, regardless of what his UBAB is. Frex if he takes a level of fighter, his UBAB is +6, but because he is a lvl 7 monk he gets an extra attack at +2 (where as normally (ie without monk levels) his UBAB would only allow another attack at +1).

Does that make any sense to anyone?

--Confusing Spikey

 

[Zhure]

Just a quibble, Spikey.

I think it'd be more accurate to say that as a class, level dependent ability monk and monk-classes get multiple iterative attacks at a -3 instead of the regular -5, but based solely on their UBAB for secondary, tertiary, quarternary, etc. strikes. Their primary strike is based their total BAB.

Damn, that's just as clunky still.

Greg

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Just a quibble, Spikey.

Well, I really just threw that out there becuase that's the way it makes the most sense to me, and it's kinda the way I thought of it when it clicked in my head.

There may very well be better ways to put (lord knows WotC needed help).

--Red Spikey

 

[graydoom]

How is this for a succinct explanation:

All classes have UBAB.

As a class, level dependant, feature of the monk (and other monk classes), you gain extra attacks sooner.

So a 7th level monk, as a class feature, gets an extra unarmed attack at +2.

So if he multiclasses, while unarmed he can still take this extra attack at +2, regardless of what his UBAB is. Frex if he takes a level of fighter, his UBAB is +6, but because he is a lvl 7 monk he gets an extra attack at +2 (where as normally (ie without monk levels) his UBAB would only allow another attack at +1).

Does that make any sense to anyone?

--Confusing Spikey

I guess that your explanation does make sense... an amazing feat considering that the dang rules don't make sense!

That is the best explanation of it that I've seen so far (with Zhure's quibble included), so I think that will be the method I use to explain it to anyone else if this comes up again (which is most likely will).

 

[Gez]

The D&D FAQ also say that a Wizard 5/Spellsword 10/Mage of Arcane Order 1 is considered as a wizard 16 for spellcasting. That would be true if the spellsword wasn't an "every two levels" continuing class. A Wiz 5/Splswd 10/MoAO is a spellcasting wizard 11.

The FAQ also contradict Tome & Blood when they say that a spellcaster can take feats like Weapon Focus or Improved Critical on spells, but one feat by spell (T&B categorize the spells with attack rolls among three categories: ray, contact, and energy missile; and each category is considered a weapon category for feats). It also contradicts the PHB, which says it is possible to tae Weapon Focus: Ray (and then, you'll have the bonus to hit with Ray of Frost, of Enfeeblement, and any other Ray Spell that you aim).

"Cl1mh4224rd" has it right by the FAQ, but Zhure has it right by OA, and I consider OA as more official for monkish matters. Beside, it's just more rational. Use only UAB for number of attacks (and attack increments), but use full BAB for die rolls.