Locate Creature (and other spell questions)

[Prophet2b]

The SRD description of the Locate Creature spell is:

This spell functions like locate object, except this spell locates a known or familiar creature.

You slowly turn and sense when you are facing in the direction of the creature to be located, provided it is within range. You also know in which direction the creature is moving, if any.

The spell can locate a creature of a specific kind or a specific creature known to you. It cannot find a creature of a certain type. To find a kind of creature, you must have seen such a creature up close (within 30 feet) at least once.

Running water blocks the spell. It cannot detect objects. It can be fooled by mislead, nondetection, and polymorph spells.

What does it mean when it says "Running water blocks the spell"? Does that mean that if a character is on the other side of a river, the spell can't find them? Or if the character is under the water of a river the spell can't find him? Or what...?

I assumed it meant if he's on the other side of a river (or other moving body of water). But I just want to be sure, because that severely limits the usefulness of the spell if that's the case.

 

[Wolfwood2]

The SRD description of the Locate Creature spell is:

What does it mean when it says "Running water blocks the spell"? Does that mean that if a character is on the other side of a river, the spell can't find them? Or if the character is under the water of a river the spell can't find him? Or what...?

Other side of a river. Though underneath a river would certainly work.

I assumed it meant if he's on the other side of a river (or other moving body of water). But I just want to be sure, because that severely limits the usefulness of the spell if that's the case.

Severely limits the usefulness of the the spell? Really?

Note that the range on this spell is only 400 ft + 40 ft/level with a duration of 10 minutes/level. That's pretty good for sweeping a city or forest for someone you're trying to find, but still local enough that if there's a stream or something close enough to matter you'll know to go check the other side of that.

Unless you live in Venice or something.

 

[Prophet2b]

Hmm, and while I've got this thread going about spell questions, I'm re-reading Teleport and Scrying, and I want to make sure my understanding is correct.

Under teleport it says:

“Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour."

But scrying takes 1 hour to cast and only lasts 1/min per level. It also only allows the scryer to see and hear within 10 feet around the person he's scrying on. So if I'm understanding this correctly:

1. A Wizard would need at least six scrolls of scrying to study carefully a target/location.

2. If the target was constantly moving, the Wizard would never be able to "study carefully" because the surroundings would constantly be changing. He would only ever get "Viewed Once" roll unless he's been where the target is and knows it.

Also, one last thing. It says, "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination."

This seems to leave a lot up to interpretation. Would scrying actually be able to give the location and layout of the destination? Knowing someone is in a wooded area doesn't seem to help very much at all - there are tons of wooded areas out there in the world. Or what if the person being scryed on is on a city street with tons of people around? Aside from a street and tons and tons of moving people, the scryer would know very little about the area - next nothing, I'd say.

So just how useful is scrying when it comes to helping a person teleport? It doesn't seem nearly as useful as I'd first thought.

 

[Prophet2b]

Note that the range on this spell is only 400 ft + 40 ft/level with a duration of 10 minutes/level. That's pretty good for sweeping a city or forest for someone you're trying to find, but still local enough that if there's a stream or something close enough to matter you'll know to go check the other side of that.

Unless you live in Venice or something.

Hahaha... Stupidness on my part. I misread that as 1/min per level, instead of 10. You're right, with that duration alone my problem was solved. Woops...

I was thinking before that with such a little bit of time, the caster wouldn't have nearly enough time to go scour an area, plus make sure the person wasn't hiding on the other side of a river (or something along those lines), etc. It seemed really underpowered for that level... 10 min makes much more sense. Duh..........

 

[Vorput]

Hmm, and while I've got this thread going about spell questions, I'm re-reading Teleport and Scrying, and I want to make sure my understanding is correct.

Under teleport it says:

But scrying takes 1 hour to cast and only lasts 1/min per level. It also only allows the scryer to see and hear within 10 feet around the person he's scrying on. So if I'm understanding this correctly:

1. A Wizard would need at least six scrolls of scrying to study carefully a target/location.

2. If the target was constantly moving, the Wizard would never be able to "study carefully" because the surroundings would constantly be changing. He would only ever get "Viewed Once" roll unless he's been where the target is and knows it.

Also, one last thing. It says, "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination."

This seems to leave a lot up to interpretation. Would scrying actually be able to give the location and layout of the destination? Knowing someone is in a wooded area doesn't seem to help very much at all - there are tons of wooded areas out there in the world. Or what if the person being scryed on is on a city street with tons of people around? Aside from a street and tons and tons of moving people, the scryer would know very little about the area - next nothing, I'd say.

So just how useful is scrying when it comes to helping a person teleport? It doesn't seem nearly as useful as I'd first thought.

I hate to do this since I'm one of the PCs prophet is currently hunting, but meh.

First off, studied carefully isn't neccesary to teleport. If you've simply seen the place once- you're still more than 75% likely to end up there.

Also,

“Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it...

Since Scrying isn't a concentration spell, you can cast teleport while currently scrying (meaning you're currently seeing the place, thus gaining the benefit of 'studied carefully' because you're currently watching it). It also gives the benefit of knowing where you landing before you land there.

Also, scrying is often used multiple times, eventually you're bound to see a sign, or hear the PCs talking about where they are, or where they're going, etc. Also don't rule out the usefulness of spells like commune, contact other plane, etc. in conjunction with scrying.

Vorp

 

[Prophet2b]

First off, studied carefully isn't neccesary to teleport. If you've simply seen the place once- you're still more than 75% likely to end up there.

Right. Of course. And those are good odds...

Since Scrying isn't a concentration spell, you can cast teleport while currently scrying (meaning you're currently seeing the place, thus gaining the benefit of 'studied carefully' because you're currently watching it). It also gives the benefit of knowing where you landing before you land there.

Now that you mention it, I remember that... Dang. This is what happens when you read through this stuff at work - you miss obvious answers because your attention is divided. Damn my work getting in the way of D&D!

Anyway, it just seems like there has to be some major limitation to these two spells that I'm missing. Otherwise, in combination, these two spells are quite possibly one of the most powerful spell combinations in the entire game.

I want you guys to live. But unless there's some weakness to scrying and teleport (aside from caster's level) that I'm missing, that's looking less and less likely...

 

[Artoomis]

Note the limitation on Scry/Telport:

1. Requires a 2' x 4' mirror or a font or a natural pool.

2. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 12 or higher can notice the sensor by making a DC 20 Intelligence check. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.

3. It has a Will saving throw.

4. Teleport has a range limation of 100 miles per level.

5. If the bad guy can do it, so can the good guys.

6. It can be prevented by Nondetection and Mind Blank, at least.

So, yes, it can be very effective, but has limitations.

 

[Nail]

I want you guys to live. But unless there's some weakness to scrying and teleport (aside from caster's level) that I'm missing, that's looking less and less likely...

Scrying requires a Will save from the subject.

 

[Nail]

IMC, the PCs are being scryed by (at least one) Bad Guy. The Will saves are a dead give away something bad is happening, and at least one person in the party almost always manages to make the DC 20 Int check to note the sensor. Not to mention the times when they succeed on their Will saves and the Bad Guy can't scry the rest of the day.

Point is: the PCs almost always know when they are being scried upon. And if you know you're being scryed upon, you can do something about it....usually.

 

[Vorput]

I want you guys to live. But unless there's some weakness to scrying and teleport (aside from caster's level) that I'm missing, that's looking less and less likely...

Meh, then next time don't put an insanely powerful magical artifact where we can easily find it at 2nd level

And seriously, how many 9th level casters with conjuration AND divination spells are there in Ebberon?

But do whatever fits the campaign, that dwarven conjurer is looking more and more tempting...