Level Advancement Over A Lifetime

[mmadsen]

And if you withhold extra hit points, BAB advancement, saving throw advancement and spells, you're not really left with much. After all, what exactly would a 10th level commoner or even an expert be compared to their 1st level counterpart, without all that?

Someone who knows more about farming, or smithing, or whatever than his understudies and apprentices.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

Re: What about non-humans?

Does this mean that if the average elf is middle aged at 175 (as per PHB), then they will be an average of Level 11 or so?

I think that starts becoming really difficult.

Duncan

Personally I don't have NPC's start gaining experience till they reach "adulthood" for Elves that's age 110. So a 175 year old elf would have the experience of an 80 year old human (around level 7 or 8). This would give some non-human's a cultural advantage.
On the other hand a half-orc over 60 is venerable and unlikely to ever see 10th level.

 

[CRG]

Personally I don't have NPC's start gaining experience till they reach "adulthood" for Elves that's age 110. So a 175 year old elf would have the experience of an 80 year old human (around level 7 or 8). This would give some non-human's a cultural advantage.

Well, you can make up for that using any of the proposed solutions saying that the half-orc traditionally has a harder life (ie, more experience) than the human, who has a harder life than the elf sitting in his little tree-community.

I think the way to go is some combination of things - assume some period of time is a CR x encounter (typically). Increase it if need be for harsh times, etc.

The next thing I think that would be cool is to take your aging table and apply a "social class / lifestyle" or "where I live" modifier.

For instance, the commoner in the nice little country community on good land in a well-maintained city with clean water, etc. is less likely to get sick and suffer effects of aging. The commoner who lives in the slum vs the commoner who lives in the nice houses across town should have a distinction between them as well.

 

[S'mon]

Re: And more responses!

Joshua Dyal:
(snip responses to _everyone else_)

Ignoring me, eh?

*Hmph*

I guess I was a bit rude....

IMO it's fine to change the XP-gain rules, as the DMG says, and to run a world where most people are 5th level+ or whatever (like Shark's 'better-than-life' gameworld) but I agree with the comment that eg bringing in the harvest might be a CR2 encounter, but it's an encounter for an entire village, with that 600 XP divided between hundreds of people - if you applied the standard DMG rules and actually played through a typical year of a commoner's life, awarding XP only for overcoming challenges (not for eg good roleplay), the XP award would be negligible going by the standard system, and few Commoners would ever reach level 2.

 

[Desdichado]

And yet you left my name. That must mean something!

 

[seasong]

Re: Re: And more responses!

S'Mon:
Wasn't ignoring you, but it took me longer to think about yours . Also, I wanted to incorporate changes from everyone's commentary in the main body before really tackling this one!

As the rules stand, a small region of farms, small communities (thorpes) and whatnot with about 1-2000 people total, should have one or two farmers at level 6. These farmers will be age 40-50, have somewhere around 8-12 hp (assumes above average initial CON), and be known as tough old codgers who've fought off wolves in their prime. They aren't going to be alive much longer, but everyone in their little region finds them very impressive!

The bulk of the adult population in this region will be levels 3-5, have more hp than the codgers, but not be quite as impressive overall. They'll mostly be in the prime of their life, with rarity increasing sharply with level.

The skill competence, ages, etc., all fit about what I want for my alternate reality, european setting.

Regarding % survival of CR 2: I disagree. CR 2, for me, just means "something that is pretty challenging for a 2nd level character, and immensely difficult for a 1st level character". To use your example, a 1st level wizard has 0% in a fight with two 1st level fighters, either, although a 1st level fighter has some chance. Different classes have different definitions of a CR 2 scenario.

Regarding the CR 2 harvest: This would be an encounter, not a scenario. I've revised the main text to better define this, but to repeat it here...

a peasant will have 12-24 CR 2 events (scaring a wolf away from his cattle, several weeks of back-breaking labor, bringing in the harvest, a brawl at Old Ma's Tavern, finding out why the well ain't as deep as it should be, rebuilding Hoe's house after it burnt down, etc.) over the course of a year, which he will divide the XP with the 12-24 other peasants helping him. OR, he will have a CR 2 scenario for the 1 year, with no XP division.

The "scenario & no XP division" is a simplification of the DMG's guidelines, but it is by no means an increase in the resulting XP. Particularly in a harsh setting like mine.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

Giving Commoners levels based on age is flawed in several ways. First when a character gains a level he gain more hit points, better fighting abilities,new abilities and/or feats,and more skill points. Giving out the first 2 gains according to age to a commoner makes no sense the healthiest strongest members of any group(humans) will be aged 20-30. so giving a 50 year old 7d4 hit points while a 20 year old only has 1d4 is silly. The feats and skills are different however if you could think up a system that only gives out feats and skill points and forget the hit points and combat skills and it would be a great system.

As for the old grizzled warrior if he's that good he would have started taking fighter levels a long time ago.

Ageing Effects (page 93 PHB) should balance that.

Level 1 warrior
age 15;
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 10
HP 4; AC 12 (leather)
Attk +2 melee, +1 ranged
Dmg +1
(1st feat)

Level 2 warrior
age 18;
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 10
HP 9; AC 13 (studded leather)
Attk +3 melee, +2 ranged
Dmg +1

Level 3 warrior
age 24;
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 10
HP 13; AC 14 (chain shirt)
Attk +4 melee, +3 ranged
Dmg +1
(2nd feat)

Level 4 warrior
age 32;
Str 13, Dex 10, Con 10
HP 18; AC 15 (chainmail)
Attk +5 melee, +4 ranged
Dmg +1
(+1 to Str)

age 35; (Middle age; -1 to Str, Dex, & Con)
Str 12, Dex 9, Con 9
HP 14; AC 14 (chainmail)
Attk +5 melee, +3 ranged
Dmg +1

Level 5 warrior
age 43;
Str 12, Dex 9, Con 9
HP 17; AC 14 (chainmail)
Attk +6 melee, +4 ranged
Dmg +1

age 53; (Old age; -2 to Str, Dex, & Con )
Str 10, Dex 7, Con 7
HP 12; AC 12 (chain shirt)
Attk +5 melee, +3 ranged
Dmg +0

Level 6 warrior
age 57;
Str 10, Dex 7, Con 7
HP 15; AC 12 (chain shirt)
Attk +6/+1 melee, +4 ranged
Dmg +0
(3rd feat)

age 70; (Venerable age; -3 to Str, Dex, & Con )
Str 7, Dex 4, Con 4
HP 9; AC 10 (studded leather)
Attk +4 melee, +3 ranged
Dmg -2

Level 7 warrior
age 73;
Str 7, Dex 4, Con 4
HP 10; AC 10 (studded leather)
Attk +5 melee, +4 ranged
Dmg -2

The warrior seems to peak at 32. After that the aging penalties seem to balence the level benefits (depending on feats chosen)

P.S.
Level 6 commoner
age 57;
Str 10, Dex 7, Con 7
HP 6; AC 10 (leather)
Attk +3 melee, +1 ranged
Dmg +0
(3rd feat)

This level 6 commoner is no match for an 18 year old level 2 warrior.

 

[seasong]

100s of Peasants Bring In The Harvest

Actually, if bringing in the harvest takes hundreds of commoners, I sincerely doubt that four level 2 Fighters could manage it... which translates (in a sense) to "that ain't CR 2".

I'd just take it on a field-by-field basis, however, with 10-20 serfs working each field. That's more like a CR 2.

 

[seasong]

Ageing Effects (page 93 PHB) should balance that.

(snipped excellent crunch analysis)

The warrior seems to peak at 32 after that the aging penalties seem to balence the level benefits (depending on feats chosen)

(snipped commoner crunch analysis)

This level 6 commoner is no match for an 18 year old level 2 warrior.

MavrickWeirdo, I've been mispelling your name. Sorry 'bout that.

The above was an excellent example, thank you! Although my setting's aging rules are very slightly more harsh .

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: And more responses!

S'Mon:

Regarding % survival of CR 2: I disagree. CR 2, for me, just means "something that is pretty challenging for a 2nd level character, and immensely difficult for a 1st level character". To use your example, a 1st level wizard has 0% in a fight with two 1st level fighters, either, although a 1st level fighter has some chance. Different classes have different definitions of a CR 2 scenario.

Hm, that Wizard could just cast Sleep if he has it and probably take out those Fighters, I'd give him at least 50-50 if he had time to precast a defense spell like Shield. The XP rules as written don't support giving NPC classes more XP than PC classes at the same level for the same encounter, even though they're weaker. Of course you're perfectly free to change this so that eg for a Commoner 1 a kobold is CR 1, just as a gnoll is CR 1 for a 1st level Fighter. That's not how it's written in the DMG but your approach may well suit your world better.