Is the Fighter’s Combat Challenge an Opportunity Attack?

[TheGogmagog]

Is the Fighter’s Combat Challenge an Opportunity Attack?

I’m making my first fighter and noticed something new (to me). These are two separate attack types. I needed to calculate two attack bonuses for Opportunity Attacks and Combat Challenge attacks because the fighter feats don’t apply to OA’s, just CC. On top of that a recent issue with immediate actions made something else catch my eye.

Combat Challenge: PH 76. In addition, whenever a marked enemy that is adjacent to you shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy as an immediate interrupt.

Combat Superiority: You gain a bonus to opportunity attacks equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Opportunity attacks are not Immediate Actions, since they can be take for each creature that provokes them and are not limited to one per round. Combat Challenge is an Immediate action, so therefore it’s not an Opportunity attack? This would mean that a fighter does not add his wisdom bonus Combat Superiority to Combat Challenge attacks. Likewise the general feats like Blade Opportunist or Combat Reflexes would not benefit Combat Challenge attacks.

If all this is right, wouldn’t a fighter with a marked opponent take an Opportunity Attack for the target making a ranged attack AND make a Combat Challenge attack for attacking someone else? Same if they shifted first and get stopped by CC, then do something else that would normally provoke an OA. [edit: I see what Snotboy and Jonathan Moyer were pointing out, I was still confusing CC attacks and CS advantages for OA. CC doesn't prevent movement]

Taking the Immediate Action rules (PH268) into account, a Fighter that marks several targets can only take the special Combat Challenge attacks for shifting or attacking someone other than you against one of them. He can still take normal opportunity attacks against each foe that provoke them like making ranged attacks in melee.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, if they shift and you hit them with combat challenge, they don't stop, the shift is still successful. So unless they shifted to a location beside you, they can probably use their ability with impunity.

However, if someone you've marked attacks someone else with a ranged attack, yes you get to use both the combat challenge attack and the attack of opportunity, and -yes- this ranged attacker is attacking at a penalty.

And yes, it really -is- that dumb to shoot a bow beside a fighter.

 

[Starglim]

By the RAW, you're probably right, nothing that benefits or penalises opportunity attacks applies to Combat Challenge or vice versa.

However, comparing the text for the Distracting Shield and Potent Challenge feats with their table entries on the next page, even the WotC design team didn't follow this consistently. It seems simpler to say that a Combat Challenge attack is an opportunity attack, except that it's granted specifically by that class feature (thus, certain feats only benefit those attacks) and is an immediate action. As you say, it's clear you only get to use Combat Challenge once per round, even if the fighter marks more than one target (rare, but sometimes possible).

A fighter adjacent to a marked opponent who made a ranged attack against someone else could only make one reaction to that trigger. edit: Apart from anything else, otherwise he would get two actions simultaneously, which is physically impossible if his chosen actions were to attack with the same weapon. He could choose to make either a Combat Challenge attack or an opportunity attack if they were different.

 

[TheGogmagog]

However, comparing the text for the Distracting Shield and Potent Challenge feats with their table entries on the next page, even the WotC design team didn't follow this consistently. It seems simpler to say that a Combat Challenge attack is an opportunity attack...[ /quote] I noticed this also but defaulted to entry overrides table ruling. I was really hoping I was wrong. This paradigm change makes me really hate both the opportunity attack feats AND the Combat challenge feats, and to some extent the fighter as a whole. This really ruined my 'don't you ignore my challenge' character build.

A fighter adjacent to a marked opponent who made a ranged attack against someone else could only make one reaction to that trigger.

What if they perform two different triggers, first a movement like trying to shift away triggering CC, then a ranged attack at the fighter from melee. In this case you are fine with two attacks? I also suspected taking both attacks would be violation of some rule, but couldn't find anything about one reaction to a trigger.

 

[Danceofmasks]

AFAIK, there is nothing stopping a fighter taking both an OA and a CC swipe if a marked foe shoots at his buddy.

Edit:
Realised that's very vague. I'll clarify.

CC swipe is an immediate interrupt.
Immediate actions can be taken once per round.

OA is an opportunity action.
Opportunity actions can be taken once per turn.

Opportunity actions do not count towards your # of immediate actions limit, and immediate actions do not count towards your # of opportunity actions limit.

Why can't they have the same trigger?

 

[Danceofmasks]

edit: Apart from anything else, otherwise he would get two actions simultaneously, which is physically impossible if his chosen actions were to attack with the same weapon. He could choose to make either a Combat Challenge attack or an opportunity attack if they were different.

If there is a timing conflict, the person whose turn it is decides the order.
Not stated in RAW, but seems to be the WoTC position (ok, fine ... I've read one of 'em say it, and it wasn't Mearls).
So, the guy shooting gets to decide which hit lands first.

 

[DracoSuave]

That's Magic: The Gathering timing.

The -correct- rule is 'Whatever the DM feels is correct.'

As it is with all cases where the rules are not 'complete', this is a case which is determined on a case by case basis. Personally, I'd rule in this case, the attacker gets to choose the order of his triggers. The defender is not active in the triggering process so shouldn't have any say in their order at all.


God, this is D&D, not Rolemaster. Not -everything- needs to be firmly decided by 'the rules' and charts and things. The DM has to do -something- other than be an overglorified accountant. Occasionally he has to actually -do his job.-

This is one of those times.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Nah, if it's MtG timing, the controller of the effects get to decide the order.

 

[Kralin Thornberry]

Combat Challenge is an immediate interrupt, Combat Superiority gives additional Opportunity Attacks equal to WIS modifier score.

 

[DracoSuave]

Nah, if it's MtG timing, the controller of the effects get to decide the order.

Unless they are replacement effects, in which case it's the affected object's controller.