How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[pemerton]

I have never run any kind of RPG, investigative or otherwise. I prefer being a role-player.

Sorry, just to be clear - you've never GMed a RPG?

But you have very strong view on GMing technique.

 

[pemerton]

If there is no plot line, there is no Chekhov's gun. It doesn't count if you decide the gun is relevant as a participant.

If the GM bring something onto the stage, and the player's take it to matter, then - everything else being equal - in player-driven play, it will matter.

I take this to be an instance of what @Bagpuss had in mind in mentioning Chekhov's gun.

 

[pemerton]

I suppose there are game systems and/or styles that allow the player to actually place Checkov's Gun, but those would be pretty rare and weird in actual play.
GM: You guys enter the tavern. go ahead and give me some things you see inside and I'll make note of them.
Player: Above the bar a shining broadsword hangs. Unbeknownst to us or even the bartender, it is Grothmag's Thistle and before the moon is full again, i will use it to slay my old master.
GM: Umm...
Player: Dance monkey. Give me my sword!

Setting the parody to one side, have you played much Burning Wheel? Or 4e D&D with player-authored quests?

 

[pemerton]

If the players are the only ones driving play, there still is going to be a plot. If there wasn't a plot to follow, why would you be role-playing such a RPG?

If the players are driving play, any plot will be emergent/post-hoc.

I'm not sure I fully understand your second sentence - as in, I'm not sure what you mean by "such a RPG".

Here's an extract from play of a RPG session that was player-driven, did not have a plot to follow, and was a lot of fun at the time: https://www.enworld.org/threads/played-some-wuthering-heights-today.672161/

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, that's too bad. Shouldn't affect whether or not they made a good game though. I played Chill for years back in the 90s.

It was a good game. But I still hesitate to recommend it without pointing out it was written by people who did some fairly major bad behavior.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sorry, just to be clear - you've never GMed a RPG?

But you have very strong view on GMing technique.

I'm not sure its actually necessary to GM to have an opinion on the techniques thereof. If you've been a player, you've certainly been on the receiving end of the consequences of that technique.

 

[soviet]

I'm not sure its actually necessary to GM to have an opinion on the techniques thereof. If you've been a player, you've certainly been on the receiving end of the consequences of that technique.

I've watched a lot of movies.

What Stanley Kubrick got wrong was

 

[Cadence]

I've watched a lot of movies.

What Stanley Kubrick got wrong was

I guess that takes care of the threads on the new PHB art. I'm guessing few on here have made art for a game book before. And also dismisses almost all criticism of senators and presidents.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not sure its actually necessary to GM to have an opinion on the techniques thereof. If you've been a player, you've certainly been on the receiving end of the consequences of that technique.

If you understand the actual techniques used, which is dependent on how transparent the GM was being. Count me among those a little sus of armchair quarterbacks.

 

[Reynard]

Setting the parody to one side, have you played much Burning Wheel? Or 4e D&D with player-authored quests?

I have never run (or read) Burning Wheel in any of its forms.

I have run a lot of D&D with player driven action, who had characters with goals and motivations and things they wanted to do.

but that wasn't what I was parodying. I was parodying the specific idea of the player generated Chekhov's Gun -- the player declares the key to story into existence. Again, I am sure some games allow for that, and I am also sure not all players can be trusted with that responsibility.