Hidden Range attack ??

[Deathwalker]

I have a little question !

In the game i played last weekend there was a situation that was a real problem for our team, and i like some oppinions !!

Two rogue's are flanking a creature, a 3th rogue is still hidden, the creature has not seen him.

Rogue number 3 want's to use a bow to shoot the creature.
This is no problem as there is a rule in the "song and silence" called sniping that allows that BUT the rogue wants to sneak attack the creature.

The sniping rule stats there can be a attack but says nothing about the damage, so we where stumpt as there is no rule what so ever about if the attack counts as a sneak attack !!

we looked trough every book we could find and found nothing about this.

So the question is can a creature in combat be sneak attacked by a rogue that IT is not aware of ?

Also what if a rogue enters the battle after the first round can he still get a surprice round as the target is not aware of him ?

The rogue was behind a corner outside LOS of the creature 30 feet away.


Anybody please respond !!

 

[Magic Rub]

It's a sneak attack if you're within 30 feat, & any time the rogue’s target would be denied his Dexterity bonus to AC (whether he actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks the target.

It's all found in the sneak attack disctription.

 

[RogueJK]

[Edit] Never mind. [/Edit]

 

[Dr. Zoom]

So the question is can a creature in combat be sneak attacked by a rogue that IT is not aware of ?

Also what if a rogue enters the battle after the first round can he still get a surprice round as the target is not aware of him ?

Yes, the creature is effectively surprised by the rogue and loses his dex bonus to AC (for that rogue only, not the other 2). This allows the rogue to sneak attack him. He must be within 30 feet of the target and he gets a -4 to the attack roll for firing into melee unless he has the Precise Shot feat. If he wants to fire and attempt to hide again, then the sniping rule from S&S come into play. He makes a Hide check at -20 vs. the target's Spot check. If he is successful, he has kept himself hidden from the target and may surprise him again next round. Note that he can only fire one arrow per round and snipe, no more. If he fails the Hide check, the target is aware of him and he can no longer snipe or get sneak attacks by surprise.

If the rogue enters the battle as a new participant, he will not get the free partial action surprise round, as battle has already begun. But, since he is aware of the battle, he does not roll for initiative, but his initiative is one higher than the highest initiative. He goes first in the next round. See DMG, page 62.

 

[Deathwalker]

BUT !!

The problem is that the rules are not clear if the creature has his dex against the 3rth rogue.
There is the point that gives the big problem, with the 2 questions.

The creature doesn't know the 3rth rogue is there en the battle begins between between this creature and the rogue in this round.

But this creature is already fighting agains the other rogues SO the point is will the creature have its dex agains the new attacker ?

that is the problem we ran into !!

 

[Crothian]

If the creature is not aware of the sniping rogue, the creature is caught with out Dex bonus. It doesn't matter if the creature is walking, fighting, or picking flaowers. All that matters it the creature does not know the Rogue is there.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

If the creature is not aware of the new rogue, he does not get his dex bonus to AC against him. This is similar to when attacking while being invisible. In the scenario you described, the rogue acts first in the new round, and the creature is surprised by him, so the rogue is entitled to make sneak attacks. Once the creature is aware, this no longer applies. If the new rogue successfully performs the sniping check, he may stay hidden to the creature and continue to make sneak attack shots.

 

[mikebr99]

Two rogue's are flanking a creature, a 3th rogue is still hidden, the creature has not seen him.

Rogue number 3 want's to use a bow to shoot the creature.
This is no problem as there is a rule in the "song and silence" called sniping that allows that BUT the rogue wants to sneak attack the creature.

And remember that #3 also has a -4 ATT penalty for firing into melee... And one of his allies might be providing some cover...