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Foundry VTT creating is own rule system


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jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
Interesting! I'll probably be using my own rule system (I've been designing something that will be going to Kickstarter later this year), but I'm always interested in new game systems that push boundaries.
 


MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I see a list of features that almost every game has plus marketing adjectives that mean nothing.
Kinda the point, I think.

They don't have a license for 5e and are limited in how well they support it. If they can make a D&D-like system that can be fully supported by the Foundry developers and take advantage of Foundry's features without needing users to rely on a bunch of community-supported mods, it would be attractive to many existing customers and could attract more customers.

Foundry's greatest selling point is how customizable and extensible it is, but that is also a limiting factor. For the majority of gamers, I expect they don't want VTT customization to be a second hobby. They just want to be able to easily run games the fully support the system they are playing with. Since Foundry relies so heavily on community-developed game-systems and mods, quality control and ease of use suffer.

I'm actually looking into what system my next campaign is going to be. If crucible provides a better supported in-VTT experience that doesn't require me to switch VTTs, I'll seriously consider it. I quit supporting the Foundry Patreon a while back because the features getting the highest votes from other Patreons were not the features I most desired. But now I think I'll try the $5/month support to get access to Crucible and test it out.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
So, I re-subscribed the Patreon and installed the Crucible system in foundry. Will post my thoughts in this thread. First impression is that, not surprisingly, this is s system designed specifically for use with Foundry.

1. There are no plans to release a Pen & Paper version or PDF of the rules in the near future.

By design, Crucible uses a lot of features a virtual tabletop provides which cannot be easily replicated in a pen-and-paper environment. Many of its features would not translate well to a traditional tabletop environment.
From the FAQ: Crucible | Foundry Virtual Tabletop

2. Two of the four system cornerstones are obviously VTT-focused:
  • strategic grid-based combat
  • consistently automated mechanics
From the Welcome to Crucible journal in the game system in Foundry. Can't really link to it. Both are great for me in the games I run. I especially say AMEN to the "consistently automated mechanics." This is where every VTT system I've used fail to fulfill the promise of VTTs.

3. The actual system seems to be focused on being generic and supporting any setting

Not sure how I feel about this. I tend to prefer games that are focused on a specific genres.

4. Focused on campaign play more than one shots

The first system cornerstone is "Consequential Character Progression":
A primary goal for Crucible is to provide systems for meaningful, exciting, and impactful character progression. Creating and advancing a character in Crucible should be enjoyable and impactful as you gain access to new capabilities that tangibly evolve your playstyle and character persona.
5. There really are no rules released yet
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I will have to get used to only having the rules in the VTT. I find VTT journals great for looking up rules but not for reading over them.

I really hope they rethink making a PDF version. I want something I can read over more like a book. I don't really like sitting at my computer in a VTT to read over the rules.

1687604063120.png
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Not sure it is appropriate for me to give a lot of screenshots, but my first impression of the Protagonist character sheet (the PC sheet) is good. I will say that at least in its initial iteration it is fully focused on the fantasy genre. Ancestry options are: Devilkin, Dwarven, Elvish, Giantkin, Gnome, Halfling, Human, and Orcish.

But you can also create you own ancestries and backgrounds. You just create a new item with the ancestry or background type and fill out the configuration sheet. This will make it very easy to create custom ancestries and backgrounds.

Selecting options is a bit wonky. For example, clicking on ancestry pulls up the compendium for ancestries and you can click on an ancestry and read out it. But I see no way to apply the ancestry from the article itself. You have to drag the ancestry from the compendium onto the character sheet. Hopefully, in the future, they will develop a character builder feature that will step you through the character-creation process a la DnD Beyond.

Adding ancestries and backgrounds automatically updates other stats like abilities, defenses, resistances, skills, etc.

While there are warnings, such as "you may not advance to level 1 until you have finished all character creation steps", there is nothing on the character sheet that steps you through those steps. You need to have the character-creation journal entry open to figure that out. That's not exactly "consistently automated mechanics" at least when it comes to character creation.

I find the reliance on hyperlinks tiresome. Step two of character creation is to spend 9 Ability Points on your Ability Scores. But you have to click on the hyperlink for "Ability Scores" to read what they are. [Update, not true. The abilities are listed and defined in this section, just collapsed.] You can't click on the character sheet itself to pull up a tool tip or article explaining the stat on the sheet. Not a huge deal, as searching through the compendium is easy enough, just more clicks than should be needed in a digital character sheet.

As you spend your Ability Points on your ability scores, the other stats automatically update.

Next you have 2 skill points to spend on a selection of 16 skills organized into groups of four under four categories:
  • Exploration Skills
    • Awareness
    • Pathfinding
    • Stealth
    • Survival
  • Knowledge Skills
    • Arcana
    • Religion
    • Naturalism
    • Society
  • Social Skills
    • Deception
    • Diplomacy
    • Intimidation
    • Mercantilism
  • Technical Skills
    • Beastcraft
    • Tradecraft
    • Medicine
    • Performance
So these seem definitely made for a fantasy game. There is nothing built into the rules or system to create your own skills, remove or rename any.

Next you select talents. Clicking the "open talent tree" took some time to load, so I was confused at first on how to spend my talent points. I found the talent tree to be confusing at first, but basically it is just like a video game like skyrim or the witcher. What made it confusing to me is that it is not very responsive, there is a lot of lag between when you click on something and the content loads. With a bit of patience, however, it was pretty straight forward to select my talents.

1687606589909.png

Basically, these work like feats but on an advancement tree. My only concern about this mechanic is whether you'll be able to make your own feats. Seems like the talent tree interface will make this difficult. Oh...okay, no, you CAN create your own talents and tie it to the talent tree. The talent tree needs more polish in that they use cody like references such as int(0)b. Also, when creating a custom talent, it is not readily obvious what you should be selecting in the config option. You'll need to refer to instructional material. Also, the json code field for actions doesn't bode well for non-technical users.

Next you select equipment. Rules for starting equipment are have not be released yet. So for playtesting you just select whatever you want. Basically drag weapons, armor, etc. from the compendium to your character sheet. The system only provides weapons and armor at this time. There are no general equipment available at this time (e.g. rope, torches, etc.).

Once you have done all of this, you advance to level 1. Doing this locks all of your choices, so you shouldn't do this until you are sure you are happy with your selections.

Note that there are no classes in this system. You build your character concept by upgrading or selecting new talents and skills and increasing abilities. Personally, I like this. You can basically create whatever character concept you want, especially with the support for creating custom ancestries, backgrounds, and talents.

Now that I have a character, I'll have to do some testing of combat and skills tests and see how the automations work out of the box without any community mods applied.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Initiative is determined each round of combat and it automated by the system.

The behind the scenes math is:

Initiative = 3d8[Boons,Banes] + ((Dexterity + Intellect) / 2)

This would be too crunchy for me in a pen and paper game, but since the VTT automats this, it works well. The fact that it is updated each round should make combat more dynamic.
 

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Figuring out combat coming from the 5e system was a bit frustrating. You don't click on the weapon to do the attack. But once I figured out that you spend action points and you click on the action you want to take. Assuming you have properly selected a target, everything is automated nicely based on what you have equipped. You must confirm the action, giving you an optinon to avoid/undo an action based on an unintended click.

Once you use up your action points, you'll get a warning that you have no more action points to use, but it doesn't automatically go to the next actor in initiative. You/the DM must manually click in the combat tracker to move to the next turns and rounds.

I also don't like that you have to open the entire character sheet to take an action. I expect that community modes will address this if the Foundry dev team doesn't. Also the chat cards could do a better job showing the results of the actions.

When you hit 0 hit points it imposes a weakened conditions that effects things like the number of actions you take and then you start taking wounds. I have to read up more on the rules here, but it is all automated. Which is nice.

Overall, I'm liking it. Very much like playing D&D in Foundry. I like how you can create any character concept you want, though it is definitely designed for fantasy D&D-style play. I like how the combat automations work well for the most part out of the box but am missing some of my favorite community mods. Most especially, I would want to have a way to take actions without having to open the character sheet.

I have to prep my evening 5e game, but I will play through the included play test modules that comes with the system. The main thing that will likely keep me from using this system in my next game is the lack of adventure material and third-party support. Unlike Level Up or Valiant, I don't see being able to use this system with my existing 5e material. Having to create and configure all of my NPCs and monsters for every adventure, on top of other prep doesn't excite me.

Even with DnD 5e and a connector to D&D Beyond that allowed me to import all my DDB content, the huge amount of work I had to put into to prepping maps and custom monsters, items, and NPCs in my current campaign has me looking for a more low-prep system for my next game. Foundry will have to come out with a compelling campaign with fully pre-prepared adventures, including all battlemaps, monsters, and NPCs fully configured for me to seriously consider it.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
@MNblockhead gets 2 XPs for doing the work!

It makes sense for a VTT-based RPG to not have a paper or PDF book - the point of a VTT is that you're not doing things the old-fashioned way. Plus, I don't want to read about algorithms. But... I'd be very interested to see how they're going to handle the social- and puzzle-related rules, given that VTTs strike me as primarily math tools (geometry, arithmetic, and probability branches).

PS @Yora , wow, you weren't kidding!
 

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