D&D 5E Enhancing Vecna: Eve of Ruin *SPOILERS*

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Archfey do not think like mortals. To an archfey testing a new variety of hallucinogenic flora might be a bigger thing than the end of the Multiverse .

Experiencing the end of the multiverse while on the right hallucinogens would be amazing, man.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The really hard part about this is getting Soth to wear that plastic cone around his neck for a week afterwards.

 

[BeachRat88]

I'm starting to think we don't need spoilers for a thread dedicated to enhancing the adventure- and whose title is marked with spoilers

Miska the Wolf Spider is CR26, but the adventure doesn't have the demon lord as an enemy normally- Miska can only use legendary actions while they fight a CR13 and a CR19 bodyguards. It does say that if the DM thinks that the players are very skilled, they can fight this "deadly" foe- though Miska will still be immobile. At this point the characters are level 19.

Miska is a damage sponge with 400hp, but his three attacks deal embarrassingly low damage for CR26. His most powerful features are his spells, which involve DC21 dominate and suggestions- but at level 19 I'm thinking most parties would make mincemeat of this?

This whole encounter is instantly defeated if a character makes a DC25/DC10 Athletics check to pull a piece of rod from the floor (DC depending on an earlier event). Miska is sealed away and his spider-fiends flee.

Hm.

I'd think that Miska has such a reputation that they should be something of a threat- upping the damage of their attacks and adding some debilitating effects could help. It seems that Miska's spells are all about domination, so maybe there's a poison on the trident that also gives disadvantage on saves vs charm or wisdom saving throws?

I think Miska (even with a buffed statblock) needs to be more involved in this adventure in general. I don't really like the idea of lore dumps to make some NPC seem relevant (goes for Vecna too). Miska is talked about, then you fight to keep him jailed in Pandemonium later in the adventure and that's it. If the spider fiends are working for him, then they should show up periodically throughout to wreak havoc (similar to how they did in the 2e Niles novel.).

Same comment re the Rod. It's essentially irrelevant to stopping Vecna (as written in the module). If the players discover that Kas only needs it to free Miska and somehow defeat Kas before he can obtain it, the module says they can skip the quests to find the parts and pretty much jump straight to the end fight.

 

[Zaukrie]

It doesn't appear as though there is anything to suggest that there's a different path if the adventurers DON'T succeed. The module (as written) is VERY linear. There's also not much to suggest a tangible impact from the characters succeeding either. The characters are essentially pawns right up until the last chapter or two.

Also, FWIW, it appears as though this module is setting up a future "Vecna in Greyhawk" adventure.

I have no issue with linear at all.....maybe I wasn't clear. Are there desgrees of "success" so that if they do whatever, they make it harder for Vecna at the end, and easier for themselves?

 

[BeachRat88]

I have no issue with linear at all.....maybe I wasn't clear. Are there desgrees of "success" so that if they do whatever, they make it harder for Vecna at the end, and easier for themselves?

Sorry, I'll try to clarify what I was trying to say. The extreme linearity of the module doesn't really lend itself to showing degrees of success (other than progressing the party to level 20). The bulk of the module is spent on the players getting the pieces of the Rod. But they don't need the Rod to stop Vecna. They only need to be a typical level 20 party to stop Vecna. (Kas is the one who needs the Rod.) The only caveat to this is in the secrets they collect along the way. If they collect enough and don't spend them, they will have access to more power at the end.

That said, there is the consistent belief that the party really doesn't need the secrets either to beat Vecna (given his stats in the module).

I'm not sure I explained that better than before, but hopefully that helps.

 

[Zaukrie]

Sorry, I'll try to clarify what I was trying to say. The extreme linearity of the module doesn't really lend itself to showing degrees of success (other than progressing the party to level 20). The bulk of the module is spent on the players getting the pieces of the Rod. But they don't need the Rod to stop Vecna. They only need to be level 20 to stop Vecna. (Kas is the one who needs the Rod.) The only caveat to this is in the secrets they collect along the way. If they collect enough and don't spend them, they will have access to more power at the end.

I'm not sure I explained that better than before, but hopefully that helps.

that was great, thanks!

 

[Shardstone]

Orcus is a CR26 monster though, he was my point of comparison. He has potent offensive spells and the ability to call up powerful undead like liches. Vecna can be defeated by a potion of Necrotic Resistance.
But you are definitely a better judge of CR than I am, Dave

Vecna n Miska:

Spoiler

View attachment 364362View attachment 364363

Miska is very, very uninspired.

 

[dave2008]

Miska is very, very uninspired.

My version is coming together quite nicely. I will post my revised statblocks for review and comment maybe today, but probably tomorrow. I am then going to compile them in a little 14 page dossier that I will post as well. Here is the ToC:

 

[Distracted DM]

Miska is very, very uninspired.

Yeah I feel like every "big bad boss" should've gotten flavorful features.. but some like Vecna ONLY got those and can't even pull off potent spells.

Vecna the Archlich is weaving his Ritual of Remaking. He is too focused to pay the characters any mind unless they confront him directly. Vecna is funneling energy into the ritual in addition to the power of the secrets his cult gathered, so the lich is considerably less powerful than he normally is.

Seems like a great excuse to have an easy "god" for the characters to defeat.

To achieve victory, the characters must reduce Vecna to 50 hit points or fewer. A character then must use the Chime of Exile to target Vecna, which requires a clear line of sight to him. If a character wields the complete Rod of Seven Parts in this encounter, that character feels the artifact’s yearning to preserve the order of the multiverse and stop Vecna’s ritual. Each time a character strikes Vecna with the rod, Vecna takes an extra 35 (10d6) psychic damage.

Hey look the Rod does have a part to play! By making an easy encounter even easier

I look forward to seeing @dave2008 's Vecna- honestly the rod's extra damage could feel useful and earned if Vecna is a scary opponent.

Important note from The Vecna Dossier, not mentioned in the adventure itself from what I see, is: While Vecna always carries the Book of Vile Darkness on his person—in fact, he fashioned his lich form to encompass the Book—he typically has no need to call upon its foul magic in battle. If the DM wishes to run a more challenging (and more complex) encounter, Vecna may call upon any of the book’s abilities as appropriate.
So Vecna could be more dangerous if he uses everything at his disposal, but... maybe he forgot he has it in him. Or the DM only read the adventure, and not the Vecna Dossier article.

 

[BeachRat88]

To achieve victory, the characters must reduce Vecna to 50 hit points or fewer. A character then must use the Chime of Exile to target Vecna, which requires a clear line of sight to him. If a character wields the complete Rod of Seven Parts in this encounter, that character feels the artifact’s yearning to preserve the order of the multiverse and stop Vecna’s ritual. Each time a character strikes Vecna with the rod, Vecna takes an extra 35 (10d6) psychic damage.

Hey look the Rod does have a part to play! By making an easy encounter even easier

Yeah, it's useful but not essential. Most level 20 parties have decent-enough magic weapons that could be just as useful. Considering the hype around it in WOTC promotional materials (and its place in the lore), I was hoping for it to be more than just "useful". (Of course, I was also hoping for Vecna to be a bit more of a threat! )