D&D 3E/3.5 Edition Experience - Did/Do you Play 3rd Edtion D&D? How Was/Is it?

[rabindranath72]

Thanks everyone for the enlightening discussion, but I think my time here is at an end. For what is worth, the poll seems to suggest that the game isn't that bad, after all, which sort of matches my experience. Enjoy!

 

[GreyLord]

My good friend loves monks and he played mostly monks back in HS. It was ok, cause we played role play heavy, combat light games. And rest of us in group had penchant for picking classes with interesting fluff more than picking classes that are "good".

But, in combat heavy games, with people who did optimize their characters for combat efficiency ( not even full charop, just decent optimization), monks fall flat. They need good Str for dmg, Dex for AC (they can't wear armors), con for hp, wis for DC. For someone who needs to get up front and personal with enemys, he has rather low AC and HP and not much damage. Conceptually, monks were highly mobile hit and run fighters, but that didn't really translate into the game cause how action system work. You can't move, attack, move. And if you move more than 5 feet, you cant use full round action.

Monks are more specialized in some ways. Monks make EXCELLENT Wizard killers. They are probably better at approaching and killing Wizards than any other class.

Unfortunately, that's a wee bit too specialized a make for most to get into, and it doesn't really give one a ton of options against other things.

 

[Maxperson]

Harm is nasty spell. 10 dmg/caster level, half on save. One round he saved, one he failed (dm rolled 1).

And your caster rolled an 15+ both times to overcome the spell resistance?

180/280 hp gone from 2 spells. And then, Half Dragon (red) is nasty template, combine it with Warblade (don't remember what stances or manouvers he had).

Warblades are a bit OP, but even so he was more powerful than 13th level due to the bonuses half dragons give.

I think he had like STR 28 or 30 even (+8 from template+ belt of giant strenght +4). Items were done by wealth per level for lv 10 characters. Wizard did wizard stuff, some cold spell for bunch of damage. Our front liner could effective grapple that balor. And to be fair, dm did use his turn to cast blasphemy. Too bad all of us were either LE or NE. Also, we attacked him in the middle of negotiation.

Sounds like your DM was a bit free with the power levels of the PCs, which means that it really wasn't 10th level PCs fighting this thing. Negotiation with a Balor? They aren't negotiators.

Also, that cold spell had to roll an 15+ to even begin to work, the Balor has cold resistance 10, and he almost surely saved because I doubt he rolled another 1 on the die. So half damage from a 13th level caster and take an additional 10 off of that. That's not a "bunch of damage." Additionally Balors grapple at +36, so your front liner wasn't grappling it unless he had a lot of DM help.

Your DM was going really easy on you with that Balor.

 

[Maxperson]

Blasphemy is normally a ridiculously effective no save paralysis for 1d10 minutes in a forty foot radius area of effect for PCs level 15 and below. It only affects non-evil targets however.

And since they were negotiating, it new they were evil and wouldn't have wasted the round using it.

 

[Voadam]

And your caster rolled an 15+ both times to overcome the spell resistance?

Warblades are a bit OP, but even so he was more powerful than 10th level due to the bonuses half dragons give.

Sounds like your DM was a bit free with the power levels of the PCs, which means that it really wasn't 10th level PCs fighting this thing. Negotiation with a Balor? They aren't negotiators.

Also, that cold spell had to roll an 15+ to even begin to work, the Balor has cold resistance 10, and he almost surely saved because I doubt he rolled another 1 on the die. So half damage from a 14th level caster and take an additional 10 off of that. That's not a "bunch of damage." Additionally Balors grapple at +36, so your front liner wasn't grappling it unless he had a lot of DM help.

Your DM was going really easy on you with that Balor.

Keep reading. They had said it was level 13, I believe, not 10, improved spell penetration is two feats for +4. prayer bead karma for another +4 meant +21 penetration roll versus 28 SR so 7 or higher needed. So a little lucky to get two spells off in a row but all straight out of core stuff.

 

[GrimCo]

You are right, characters were ECL 13, but only 3 players, so party was ECL 10-11. Better? Balor is still CR20 monster. I said in previous post somewhere. We started at high level. Both of us playing casters factored in SR at that level so Spell penetration, Greater spell penetration + Prayer beads for my cleric. I don't remember what did wizard player used, it was long time ago. But he did have around +17/8 vs SR. at minimum.

Also, balor doesn't have detect alignment. He doesn't know if we are good, evil, neutral. He is powerful sentient being, why wouldn't we negotiate with him? Cause he is evil? We never played CE as CS (chaotic stupid). Nor do we play LG as LS. Morality is relative, depending whose side you look at and history is always written by the winners. "Good" and "evil" characters interact, work together or against each other depending on their personal goals and ambitions. Sometimes good guys will shank you in the back and evil guys will help save your bacon. Not everyone has this play style and it's ok.

Bit of luck, bit of optimization, and bit of bad luck on DM's part. We weren't supposed to fight it at all. That was our "quest giver" but i admit, it pissed me off, so i sucker punched the flaming A-hole. With harm. For some pain.

Blasphemy is good opener. It has 66% chance to affect somebody (all non evil). Same with Dictum and Holy word. If you have it, just use it. It might take all or at least some enemies.

It was fun anecdote from a session long time ago. You know, stuff you fondly remember and retell years after.

 

[Maxperson]

You are right, characters were ECL 13, but only 3 players, so party was ECL 10-11. Better? Balor is still CR20 monster. I said in previous post somewhere. We started at high level. Both of us playing casters factored in SR at that level so Spell penetration, Greater spell penetration + Prayer beads for my cleric. I don't remember what did wizard player used, it was long time ago. But he did have around +17/8 vs SR. at minimum.

Also, balor doesn't have detect alignment. He doesn't know if we are good, evil, neutral. He is powerful sentient being, why wouldn't we negotiate with him? Cause he is evil? We never played CE as CS (chaotic stupid). Nor do we play LG as LS. Morality is relative, depending whose side you look at and history is always written by the winners. "Good" and "evil" characters interact, work together or against each other depending on their personal goals and ambitions. Sometimes good guys will shank you in the back and evil guys will help save your bacon. Not everyone has this play style and it's ok.

Bit of luck, bit of optimization, and bit of bad luck on DM's part. We weren't supposed to fight it at all. That was our "quest giver" but i admit, it pissed me off, so i sucker punched the flaming A-hole. With harm. For some pain.

Blasphemy is good opener. It has 66% chance to affect somebody (all non evil). Same with Dictum and Holy word. If you have it, just use it. It might take all or at least some enemies.

It was fun anecdote from a session long time ago. You know, stuff you fondly remember and retell years after.

Even so, your DM went easy on you. If you got off a sucker punch harm, the Balor wouldn't have opened with blasphemy. He would have teleported out and come back when healed with an army of demons. It has an intelligence of 24 and staying under those circumstances was.......................dumb. Or maybe call in Bazok his Balor buddy. Then you're fighting two of them.

 

[Distracted DM]

I loved it when it was the current edition of DnD. I would never want to go back to it, and I am so happy that I was primarily a player at the time and not running it.

 

[GrimCo]

Even so, your DM went easy on you. If you got off a sucker punch harm, the Balor wouldn't have opened with blasphemy. He would have teleported out and come back when healed with an army of demons. It has an intelligence of 24 and staying under those circumstances was.......................dumb. Or maybe call in Bazok his Balor buddy. Then you're fighting two of them.

No. He played his NPC how he wanted it and how he described it, as powerful, vain, boisterous, with "i'm better than anyone" and "no one can touch me" attitude. It was logical and congruent to the setting and game style we preferred. And we can end this discussion here, since it's not productive. We all have different play style, use different settings etc. It was just fun anecdote from years passed. I don't get why it got your panties twisted.

 

[Maxperson]

No. He played his NPC how he wanted it and how he described it, as powerful, vain, boisterous, with "i'm better than anyone" and "no one can touch me" attitude. It was logical and congruent to the setting and game style we preferred. And we can end this discussion here, since it's not productive. We all have different play style, use different settings etc. It was just fun anecdote from years passed. I don't get why it got your panties twisted.

First, don't insult me again. Second, I'm arguing it because you presented it as evidence(anecdotally) that high level play is hard to keep grounded and challenging because of the abilities of the PCs. It has since come to light that the DM ran the Balor at under it's CR, which means that your evidence wasn't really evidence at all. Had I been running the Balor, I'd have run it at it's CR and your group would have either run away with the group having a very nasty enemy out there or it would have been a TPK.

I ran LOTS of high level play in 3e/3.5e and I never had that issue at all. It wasn't hard to keep the game challenging for the players.