DM Ruling: Telekinesis and Alchemist's Fire

[Gromm]

I think the idea has some merit, but its not doing anywhere near the damage the player is hoping for.
I reward people who think of clever ideas. People who try to find holes in the rules and exploit them for insane effect, don't usually score too high with me. First of all it tends to unbalance the game (like 200d6 damage), and it also means that everyone should be using the tactic if its that viable (as in the net example given above).
I've rewarded many great ideas before, and even come u pwith a few myself (like the time we knew we were fighting a medusa and the party mage and my cleric used Deeper Darkness and Blindsight to fullest effect).
The medusa thing was really, powerful, but it was definately within the rules (not unlike the other thread about Shapechange and Animal Growth). Within the rules and good combinations are fine, going outside the rules with the intent of getting something obviosuly unbalancing usually gets Rule 0'd off the bat. Or worst case scenario for the PC, it works. For everyone.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Also, using telkinesis to toss arrows at someone is not nearly the same as shooting a bow at them. You don't have the power that the bow gives to the arrows, which is why arrows do 1-8 and the damage is considered to come from the bow. I would probably have the arrows thrown with telkinesis do a minimal amount of damage against the person, prob around 1d2 or maybe 1d3. I would also give a -4 to hit someone with them as well (id say using an arrow with telikenisis counts as "exotic weapon" if there ever was one).
TLG

Another point here--arrows as thrown by telekinesis aren't going to be moving all that fast. Is their flocking enough? There's a good chance it isn't--and they tumble. A tumbling arrow probably does no damage at all.

 

[DizzyKungFu]

Similarly, hurling 100 vials of alchemist's fire should be like hurling one great big pot (in either case - hit, smash, lots of sticky burning alchemist's fire everywhere.) If you allowed 25 lbs of alchemist's fire in 20 separate vials to deal 20d6 damage, then why couldn't a fighter put 20 vials together in a net and hurl them at an enemy for 20d6 damage? I think instead the damage should scale a bit but not much - after all, as Crothian has said, you can only be so much on fire!)

It is different than the "net" technique you speak of, because the description of Telekinesis specifically says that a player must make an attack roll for each object hurled thusly. So each of the 200 flasks is treated as a seperate object that may or may not hit the target, even though you have a very high number of attacks occuring in the same round from a single character.

So if 2 different characters each hurl Alchemist fire flasks at the same target and connect, is there any reason that the target shouldn't take damage from both flasks? What if the same character could hurl two vials during their turn (because of multiple attacks or a Haste spell)? Should it handled differently if their are 200 flasks involved? Why or why not?

 

[Hejdun]

One Word:

EARTHQUAKE!

 

[Doc_Subtlety]

Getting back to other arguments from the "10000 Shuriken" debates:

Why should a character be able to coordinate so many individual objects? Normally, a person has a penalty for just using 2 hands. Think about how much harder it would be to coordinate 200.

If a player tried this in my game, I'd let them do their Int mod in separate objects, max. (And I'd definitely cap Alchemist's Fire damage, in general. Otherwise other players would definitely carry buckets of the stuff, and expect it to be all thermonuclear.)

 

[kreynolds]

Why should a character be able to coordinate so many individual objects?

Magic.

 

[DizzyKungFu]

I have no problem with the character picking up and hurling that many objects, as the description of Telekinesis certainly allows this usage (unless someone is suggesting a change to the Telekinesis description).

I'm more concerned with the effect of hurling of all those flasks, and the damage/area produced by that much Alchemist's fire at a single target. Any more suggestions?

 

[IceBear]

I personally use a rule where they can only control so many items accurately to use as missle weapons (ie, only some of the daggers hit with their points).

With the flasks of fire, I'd go with the what others have stated about only being able to catch on fire so much. I'd probably cap the damage as per the guidelines for spell damage given in the rules.

IceBear

 

[DizzyKungFu]

With the flasks of fire, I'd go with the what others have stated about only being able to catch on fire so much. I'd probably cap the damage as per the guidelines for spell damage given in the rules.

IceBear

Limiting the damage based on Telekinesis doesn't make much sense to me. The damage is being done by Alchemist's fire, not directly by the Telekinesis effect. It might be possible to duplicate this effect in a mundane way (say with some sort of mechanical device)... so in that case, the matter of that much Alchemist's fire hurled at a single target is still the crux of the issue.

 

[Vaxalon]

I would rule that after the twentieth hit, the remainder of the alchemist's fire is no longer in contact with the target and falls on the ground. 20d6 maximum damage.