D&D 5E Convince me that the Ranger is a necessary Class.

[Horwath]

Concentration is a bit of an overreaction to the spell stacking of 3E, as a way to cut down on the number of buffs or effects spellcasters could stack, and for this edition, throw bounded accuracy out of whack.

I do wish however, there was a better way to limit stacking but not require concentration to do so. Maybe certain long-term spells being treated as taking an attunement slot or a special "enmagiced" slot? Especially if you could allow for extra slots at the higher levels when players are more experienced with the complexity of a character.

keep Conc trait, but it cannot be lost by damage.

you can concentrate on number of spell levels with Conc trait equal to your highest spell slot.

I.E. as 9th level caster you can conc on a 5th level spell or a 4th and 1st level spell or 3rd level and two 1st level spells.

when you are incapacitated you lose all your conc spells.

 

[Minigiant]

It is fascinating how nobody really wants to acknowledge that may be how 5e does things is bad and is part and parcel to why this topic even exists.

If you want to talk about justifying the Ranger, you can't stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to address how 5e works and how that makes answering that question harder.

It's less that the 5e does it is wrong as much as there is a big vocal part of the community who even if they don't like skill and knowledge to be spells, they either

1. Don't want to learn another subsystem
2. Won't agree with the results of another subsystem
3. Don't want to be challenged with solid rules from a another subsystem.

 

[Laurefindel]

Doesn't matter.

When translated to D&D, advanced skill usage is straight up magic spells

As much as I hate to admit it, that’s how 5e makes it work best.

My my ideal ranger would have low-key magic or talents that borderlines the supernatural, without being overtly or blatantly magical. I’d rather give them a choice of abilities within a list rather than impose abilities at set levels. To balance it out it would need some kind of meta-resources to spend. At that point they might as well be spells and spell-slot-fuelled abilities since the system already make extensive use of that.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

It hit me like a ton of bricks is what the Ranger needs:

Their one unique thing should be the ability to create lair actions.

Like Crocodile Dundee, Batman or Rambo, they prep the battlefield and suddenly, your not just fighting the ranger. You are fighting the various snares, deadfalls, punji pits and wild animals they prepped the place with.

They can't do this all the time, but it's something that should come into play when fighting a boss or big battle.

 

[Horwath]

if you want a crunchier Ranger with pickable abilities for all levels:


Ranger:

Spoiler: Starting proficiencies

HD; d10

Weapons; simple and martial

Armor: light, medium, shields

Skills: 3, suggested; Stealth, Perception, Survival, Nature,

Tools: 2, suggested; cartography, navigators tool, herbalism tools, woodcarving,

Saves: Str and Dex

Class features:

Talent: ranger receives a large number of Ranger talents, description later on

Fighting style: pick one fighting style

Feat: pick one feat that you have prerequirements

Extra attack: make additional weapon attacks with your Attack action

Epic boon: gain epic boon or in exchange 2 Ranger talents.


Ranger talents:

Spoiler: Ranger Talents

Skill training: gain proficiency in two skills, pickable again at 6th level, 3rd time at 12th level, 4th time at 18th level

Expertise: gain expertise in two skills, can be taken again at 7th level, 3rd time at 13th level, 4th time at 19th level.

Tools of the trade: gain proficiency in any combination of 4 tools and languages. Can be taken 2 times.

Survivalist: you have advantage on saves vs hot and cold climate, weather exposure and lack of food and water

Night training: requires expertise in perception; gain darkvision of 60ft or improve darkvision by 60ft, can be take 2nd time at 10th level. If taken 3rd time at 20th level, you have unlimited darkvision in color and treat darkness as bright light.

Daylight adaptation: remove sunlight sensitivity

Eagle eyes: you can see clearly and without penalty to Perception/Investigation at distance of 1 mile

Favored terrain: pick one favored terrain, this can be picked any number of times

Favored enemy: pick one favored enemy, this can be picked any number of times

Juggernaut: requires 13+ Str; gain proficiency in heavy armor and ignore stealth penalties of armors

Primeval awareness: by concentrating for 1 minute, you can sense presense of dragons, aberrations, celestials, elementals, feys, fiends or undead within one mile. For every minute after you can expand the radius by one mile. Max radius in miles is equal to your proficiency bonus. You can do this a number of times per day equal to your proficiency bonus. You learn what type is present, but not direction or numbers or size.

Sentry; increase numbers of hrs you can spend in light activity during long rest by your proficiency modifier. No Perception penalty while sleeping.

Forager: advantage on Survival for gathering food and water, find double amount with success. Remain alert while foraging.

Trailblazer: you can move at fast pace and have no penalty for Perception, Stealth and Survival.

Endurance: halve effective exhaustion levels(halve down), remove one exhaustion level at short rest.

Poisoner: requires poisoners kit proficiency, Ranger level 3; you can create simple poisons during Long rest. You can create a number of doses equal to your proficiency bonus.
Poisons created this way stay potent for 24hrs or until you prepare them again.
Applying the poison to weapon is a Bonus action. Poison once applied stays potent for 1 minute.
Poison deals 1d4 damage per proficiency bonus and gives poisoned condition to your target until the start of your next turn.
Target can halve the damage and negate condition with Con save. DC is 8+2×your proficiency bonus.

Natural healer: requires Medicine proficiency, Ranger level 2; you can prepare a number of healing potions equal to your proficiency bonus during a Long rest
potions stay potent for 24hrs or until you prepare them again.
potions heal for 1d4 per your proficiency bonus and remove one disease and poison.
Using these potions is a Bonus action.


Darkstalker; Requires Darkvision, Requires expertise in Stealth, Ranger level 3: you can Hide from darkvision without cover or concealment

Though: requires Endurance, Rangerlevel 6; you can spend a HD as a bonus action and regain HPs equal to your roll plus your Con mod. You can do this a number of times equal to your prof mod per long rest. During short rest you heal max amount from your HDs.

Nature's step: Requires Ranger level 6; You leave no tracks and move normally through natural difficult terrain.

Stealthy: Requires Natures step, Ranger level 7, while you move at half speed or less, or travel at a slow pace you have advantage on Stealth check.

Deepstalker: requires Darkstalker, Ranger level 7; you are immune to detection to blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, scent, echolocation, etc, while you beat creatures passive perception with your Stealth.

Vanish: requires Stealthy, Ranger level 7: you can use Hide as Bonus action and when only lightly obscured.

Camouflage: requires Vanish, Ranger level 9, while you remain motionless for 1 minute, you gain +10 to your Stealth, you lose this bonus when you move.

Animal companion: gain a small companion, take this talent again at 3rd level for medium companion, take this talent again at 9th level for large companion, take this talent again at 17th level for Huge companion.

Animal fury: requires, Animal companion, Ranger level 11; your companion gains 2nd attack, , take this talent again at 17th level for 3rd attack.

Magical companion: Requires Animal companion, Ranger level 7; your companions attacks are treated as magical and once on your turn your animal companion deals extra 1d6 damage. Damage is acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison or thunder.

Twin companion: Requires Animal companion, Magical companion, Ranger level 20; you can have two companions summoned at the same time.

Druid training, basic: gain two druid cantrips, this talent can be taken 2nd time at level 10.

Druid training, 1st level: requires basic training, Ranger level 2; learn 2 druid 1st level spells, gain two 1st level slots. Can be taken two times.

Druid training, 2nd level: requires 1st level training, Ranger level 5, learn one druid cantrip, learn 2nd level druid spell, gain one 2nd level spell slot. Can be taken 3 times

Druid training, 3rd level: requires 2nd level training, Ranger level 9, learn one 3rd level druid spell, gain one 3rd level spell slot, Can be taken 3 times. 3rd time must be at 11th level or higher.

Druid training, 4th level: requires 3rd level training, Ranger level 13, learn one 4th level druid spell, gain one 4th level spell slot, Can be taken 3 times. 2nd time must be at 15th level. 3rd time at 17th level or higher.

Druid training, 5th level: requires 4h level training, Ranger level 17, learn one 5th level druid spell, gain one 5th level spell slot, Can be taken 2 times. 2nd time must be at 19th level or higher.

Druid training, 6th level: requires 5h level training, Ranger level 20, learn one 6th level druid spell, gain one 6th level spell slot.

Elemental attacks; requires Ranger level 17: all your attacks deal extra +1d6 damage. Damage is picked from Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Poison or Thunder damage.

Extra attack(3): requires Ranger level 20: gain 4th attack in your Attack action

Favored enemies:

All favored enemies provide you with this benefits:
Advantage on all "knowledge" checks(Arcana, History, Nature, Religion) to recall informations on them.
Advantage on Insight, Perception and Survival checks.
One language typically spoken by them.
Once on your turn you deal extra damage to them equal to your proficiency bonus.

Specific bonuses:

Spoiler: Specific Favored enemy bonuses

Aberrations:
Resistance to psychic damage.
Telepathy to 60ft one way.
Bonus action to link with one creature within 60ft to have 2 way communication while within number of miles equal to your Ranger level.
This links ends when one of you willingly ends the link, goes out of range, fall unconcious or finishes a long rest.

Beasts:
Gain scent ability.
Permanent speak with animals ability.
+5ft movement speed

Celestials:
Resistance to radiant damage.
Advantage to charisma checks.

Constructs:
Double damage vs objects
You attacks ignore damage resistance to bludgeoning, slashing and piercing.


Dragons:
Advantage vs fear effects
Advantage on Dex saves vs. Area effects.

Elementals:
Pick one energy type: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Thunder. Gain resistance on that type of damage.
your attacks ignore resistance to that type of damage. and treat immunity as resistance.

Fey:
resistance vs charm and figment
advantage on all Insight checks.

Fiends:
resistance to fire and poison.

Giant:
Attacks of opportunity have disadvantage against you.
Once per round deal +1d6 weapon damage vs target with less than 50% HP.

Humanoids:
Gain proficiency in 2 skills from: History, Insight, Deception, Intimidation, Persuation.
Learn 2 additional languages.

Monstrosities:
gain one of the following:
+5 speed, full climb speed, full swim speed, darkvision +60ft.

Oozes:
Advantage vs grappling.
Advantage on squeezing through tight space or out of bonds.

Plants:
Permanent speak with plants
Resistance vs poisons

Undead:
resistance vs necrotic damage.
immunity to Max HP reduction.
advantage on death saves.

Favored terrains:

Specific bonuses:

Spoiler: Specific terrain bonuses

Arctic:
Cold resistance
Advantage on check for uneven surfaces

Coastal:
Swim speed equal to walking speed.
water breathing

Desert:
Fire resistance.
Can last double amount of time without food or water.

Forest:
climb speed equal to walking speed.
jump distance doubled

Grassland:
+10 move speed.
can march for 10 instead of 8hrs

Mountain:
Climb speed equal to walking speed
high altitude adaptation.

Swamp:
Resistance and advantage vs poisons and diseases

Underdark:
+60ft darkvision

Animal companions:

You can summon a companion with a 10 min ritual. You determine the type(beast of the Land, Water, Air or Dark) and size(if available) every time you summon it.
You can complete this ritual as a part of short or long rest.
Animal companion can move and take reactions when you command it for free.
Commanding and Actions except Dodge, requires your Bonus action or one attack from your Attack action.

You can ride a companion equal to your size or larger.
Your companion must be atleast Large size and one size larger than you to use it as a flying mount.

Spoiler: Companions

Small companion:

Abilities:
Str 15, dex 14, con 15, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 30ft, special: Land; climb 30ft, Air: fly 40ft, Water: swim 30ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 15ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 4 + 4×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 3×3 your Ranger level

AC: 12+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d6+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d4+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Medium companion:

Abilities:
Str 17, dex 14, con 17, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 40ft, special: Land; climb 40ft, Air: fly 60ft, Water: swim 40ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 20ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 5 + 5×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 4×4 your Ranger level

AC: 13+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d8+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d6+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Large companion:

Abilities:
Str 19, dex 14, con 19, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 50ft, special: Land; climb 50ft, Air: fly 100ft, Water: swim 50ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 25ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 6 + 6×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 5×5 your Ranger level

AC: 14+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d10+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d8+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.


Huge companion:

Abilities:
Str 21, dex 14, con 21, int 6, wis 15, cha 10

Speed: 60ft, special: Land; climb 60ft, Air: fly 120ft, Water: swim 60ft and water breathing, Dark: burrow 30ft

Senses: Perception +2 +2×your proficiency bonus

Darkvision: 60ft, beast of the dark 120ft

HP: 7 + 7×your Ranger level, Beast of Air 6×6 your Ranger level

AC: 15+your proficiency bonus(natural armor)

Attack: d20+2×your proficiency bonus, damage 1d12+your proficiency bonus. Beast of Air 1d10+your proficiency bonus and fly-by attack.

Companion adds your proficiency bonus to all ability checks and saves.

 

[mellored]

Really the only class that doesn't need to exist in the core is the Monk.

Once you cut out the Orientalism, the Monk is 2 fighting styles: Martial Arts and Ki Discipline.

IMO

1. Sorcerer has the least class identity. It's just a wizard with a different casting stat.
2. Ranger second least. Just a fighter with nature skills, maybe a druid dip.
3. Druid, could be a cleric
4. Barbarian (playtest) could be an angry fighter. Though the playtest learned into the natrual connection moved it up a few notch.
5. Paladin, just a cleric/fighter.
6. Fighter, flexible but pretty generic. Right in the middle.
7. Bard, has a theme that's kind of all over the place.
8. Rogue, anyone can take stealth and lockpicking.
9. Wizard, variety of spells
10. Monk (playtest), speedster. It's mechanical identity has improved a lot with the playtest.
11. Cleric, has good themes depending on your god.
12. Warlock, has a unique mechanics and fun story books.
13. Artificer. Combat craftsman is unique.

 

[Bluenose]

It is fascinating how nobody really wants to acknowledge that may be how 5e does things is bad and is part and parcel to why this topic even exists.

If you want to talk about justifying the Ranger, you can't stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to address how 5e works and how that makes answering that question harder.

It seems like a deliberate choice. Some things are done with spells, and there are plenty of people who will argue that anything but the most basic ability, if there's a spell that does it, should not be available by other means than magic. So there are people who will argue that because there's a spell to restore hit points, it's not "fair" for someone to restore hit points quickly without magic. Medicine skill doesn't by default, cure poison or disease (despite that being something that humans can do), and I think one primary reason for that is that there's a spell that does it and the designers listened to the people who wanted "magic to be special". And this is part of the reason there are so many arguments about casters versus martials - martials don't even get things that are very possible IRL.

 

[Emberashh]

It seems like a deliberate choice. Some things are done with spells, and there are plenty of people who will argue that anything but the most basic ability, if there's a spell that does it, should not be available by other means than magic. So there are people who will argue that because there's a spell to restore hit points, it's not "fair" for someone to restore hit points quickly without magic. Medicine skill doesn't by default, cure poison or disease (despite that being something that humans can do), and I think one primary reason for that is that there's a spell that does it and the designers listened to the people who wanted "magic to be special". And this is part of the reason there are so many arguments about casters versus martials - martials don't even get things that are very possible IRL.

Exactly. And the sad part is, WOTC had good ideas for it in the No-Spells Ranger. Poultices were simplistic but that could have easily translated into something more substantive.

Course, everybody and their mother called that class overpowered, as though it still wasn't dwarfed by the sheer amount of crap (spells) any spellcaster gets.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It is. The internet, electricity, cell phones, etc are are explainable and don't actually resemble magic at all

He said, repeatedly casting Message.

 

[Emberashh]

He said, repeatedly casting Message.

This is why Intelligence always ends up overpowered.