Complete Warrior: Who's the best warrior of the bunch?

[jarlaxlecq]

True enough, James.

But, if ....... I want me a card-carrying member of the International Brotherhood of Thugs, Legbreakers, and Hired Goons, Local #684.

HAHAHA I love that

 

[James McMurray]

Mine has 3 Swashbuckler Levels. Nowhere in Palm Strike does it say that you don't get the Sneak damage with each attack.
I am fully aware that Manyshot doesn't allow a Sneak for both, but, unless you show me where it says that Palm Strike doesn't allow for Sneak on both, I believe that it does allow for it.
Again, I am not being snippy, and I would sincerely want to see if a prohibition is in the rules somewhere, as I am a 'By-the-Rules' sort of guy.

There isn't anything in the ability that indicates sneak attack doesn't apply. And, unlike Manyshot you can critical with both attacks. Its an extremely powerful ability. Some would say its too powerful, but don't tell that to Nails, my epic Master Thrower with shuriken that deal 1d2+60-ish damage per hit. She might take offense and fill you full of tiny holes.

 

[Impeesa]

To Quote the FB, he/she enters Frenzy at the start of his/her next action, not after the first hit.

Unless they happen to have Instantaneous Rage.

He/she is dead by his/her next action.

With a normal build, you claim a max of 280. That's certainly impressive, I'll give it that. A 13th level barb/berserker with, say, 22 con (it's his second most important stat, after all) only has a maximum of 234 hp outside of rage. I don't feel like doing the math right now, but I have a feeling that your average damage vs. his average hp is a little more favorable, since much of your damage comes from bonus dice. Also, your whole tactic is rendered mostly ineffective by armor of fortification, which sounds uncommon but should be a priority of most melee types anyways. All that aside, you've discovered that melee types can be taken down by a ranged sneak attack from the shadows. Most characters will, just like most non-tank types will go down in a head-to-head with a good barbarian build.

And to reveal my bias (or at least encouragement for playing the devil's advocate), I am in fact playing a frenzied berserker build in a new campaign right now. He's only 3rd level (so he's not actually an FB yet), but it's interesting to note that by 13th level he'll have 30' reach (large size base, righteous might from wand, reach weapon). Unless I am mistaken, the range limit for precision damage (all your sneak attack bonuses) is still 30'. Hope you took the Defensive Throw trick.

--Impeesa--

 

[Crothian]

Halfling outrider is the best. It has a great concept filled with a good amount of interesting abilities. It has uses out of combat and is not a one shot character. Best does not equal biggest bang in my book.

 

[Uriel]

Unless they happen to have Instantaneous Rage.



With a normal build, you claim a max of 280. That's certainly impressive, I'll give it that. A 13th level barb/berserker with, say, 22 con (it's his second most important stat, after all) only has a maximum of 234 hp outside of rage. I don't feel like doing the math right now, but I have a feeling that your average damage vs. his average hp is a little more favorable, since much of your damage comes from bonus dice. Also, your whole tactic is rendered mostly ineffective by armor of fortification, which sounds uncommon but should be a priority of most melee types anyways. All that aside, you've discovered that melee types can be taken down by a ranged sneak attack from the shadows. Most characters will, just like most non-tank types will go down in a head-to-head with a good barbarian build.

And to reveal my bias (or at least encouragement for playing the devil's advocate), I am in fact playing a frenzied berserker build in a new campaign right now. He's only 3rd level (so he's not actually an FB yet), but it's interesting to note that by 13th level he'll have 30' reach (large size base, righteous might from wand, reach weapon). Unless I am mistaken, the range limit for precision damage (all your sneak attack bonuses) is still 30'. Hope you took the Defensive Throw trick.

--Impeesa--

Mine does have Defensive Throw, just for the record.
As I mentioned, my attacks are Touch attacks...which ignore armor.
I wonder if that means that the Fortification ability is ignored as well...

Hypersmurf???

I would like to point out (in favor of the FB) that if the FB has taken many Barbarian levels, it will negate Sneaks as well. See, I'm not biased.
I just finished computing the MT for the Gestalt game and was astonished at the damage that he can do. It is worse, seeing as I will be doing another 6 Hp per dagger due to Int bonus/Swashbuckler(Insightful Strike).

I am actually a big fan of melee tanks, two handed swords and all of that.
In one game that I run on the PbP boards, there is a half-Ogre who regularly does over a hundred points per hit (His usual hits are 4D8+48) when he Crits.
When he Rages it's silly...
Of course, he suffers from the same flaw as the FB, low Will saves.
All it took was one Charm Monster and the party's Tank (they have another one, his Ogre Pop, actually) was snarling and trying to eviscerate them all.
A Levitate does wonders for a melee monster as well...sort of silly to see them dangling in the air, impotant.
I guess that is why this game is based around the Party, so that the Master Thrower has someone like a Frenzied Berserker to back him up, or a Cleric/Mage with Dispel for those nasty Will spells.

Off the subject of the FB stats, and on to the art.
Anyone else notice that the pic looks just like a Fianna from Confrontation?
They are pretty much what the FB is described as, crazed women (OK, not all FBs are girls) with oversized swords, charging in and hacking things in two...?
Just wondered

 

[Uriel]

Halfling outrider is the best. It has a great concept filled with a good amount of interesting abilities. It has uses out of combat and is not a one shot character. Best does not equal biggest bang in my book.

I actually got excited about the master thrower for 3 reasons.

1:I throw knives, avidly.
2:I saw this cheesy fantasy movie from the early 80s's as a kid. Sort of a fantasy Spaghetti Western, with the 'Gunfighter' being a knife throwing guy.
3: The Judas Priest song 'The Sentinal' from their Defenders of the Faith album from way back in 1982. It is about a knife throwing assassin wacking a bunck of guys in an alley in some post-apocalyptic world.

Anyways, I like the Hulking Hurler, the MT and the FB most. The Gnome Giant Killer, while (as a Gnome fanatic) looks cool at first glance, is just too specialized. Unless...




...Anywone running the Giant Series converted to 3.5?



Edit:I had typed 'Ginfighter'...I see those sometimes at the Nightclub where I work, although Vodka seems to fuel bad attitudes more than Gin.

 

[James McMurray]

Mine does have Defensive Throw, just for the record.
As I mentioned, my attacks are Touch attacks...which ignore armor.
I wonder if that means that the Fortification ability is ignored as well...

Touch attacks ignore armor bonuses to AC, not armor special abilities.

A Levitate does wonders for a melee monster as well...sort of silly to see them dangling in the air, impotant.

I assume you have lots of ranks in bluff so you can make the melee monster a willing target for your levitation?

I guess that is why this game is based around the Party, so that the Master Thrower has someone like a Frenzied Berserker to back him up, or a Cleric/Mage with Dispel for those nasty Will spells.

Hear! Hear! Asking "which X is the best Y" is silly unless you're in an arena game where all you do is fight others in never-ending battles for blood and victory. In a standard campaign you need a nice round party to cover all the bases.

 

[Particle_Man]

For "what I want to play most from the book" I would have to go with the Swashbuckler. Kewl! I like how intelligence can be used as a combat aid.

For "nasty character" I think the Dark Hunter might qualify, since it has a Death Attack. So a 5th (whatever)/5th Dark Hunter/10th Assassin has a pretty nasty fort save for the victims, there. Come to think of it, I guess this also uses intelligence as a combat aid.

 

[satori01]

My vote goes to Triangle Man, after all he did beat up particle man.

 

[Darklone]

Well... Palm Throw is ok, there was another ability for the MT... Two in one? Or was it only useable like Manyshot?

This build above does not take into account armour with concealment like miss chances... Cloak of Displacement anyone?