Complete Warrior: Who's the best warrior of the bunch?

[Pax]

True enough, James.

But, if I were to want to face an FB in melee range, I'd want Hide in Plain Sight, as sure as my name isn't Sue! So, lose a die of sneak attack, and pick up a level of Shadowdancer ... then lose the Halfling, and go Half-Orc. Screw this "small finesse rogue" stuff ... I want me a card-carrying member of the International Brotherhood of Thugs, Legbreakers, and Hired Goons, Local #684.

And I also want the tactical feat elusive target. Declare the FB to be the target of your dodge, and one-third of the FB's "schtick" evaporates like a snowball on the fifth hell: no more benefits from Power Attack. Sucks to be the FB.

Meanwhile, combine Hide in Plain Sight with Skill Mastery (Hide and Move Silently), and every so often, you "go back under cloak", and see if the FB keels over for want of opponents and HP.

 

[tauton_ikhnos]

"Scorn unconsciousness" is not a defined ability. It does not provide immunity to unconsciousness or unconsciousness effects. The actual ability is well defined, and only applies to 0 and negative hit points (not disabled, not dying, etc.). As GM, I would rule that subdual damage does not knock FB out, but that would not prevent drowning, sleep-like spells, etc.

Also, death from massive damage, though only 5% chance of working in most cases.

Best way to deal with FB, however, is Reaping Mauler. That is one nasty PrC with a good build. And FB's abilities don't matter much if pinned.

 

[LGodamus]

Because Sneaky Throw means you're flatfooted for that group of attacks - no Dex bonus, and hello sneak attack. No dex bonus, and a touch attack, also means (if I have the strength,which wouldn't be hard to manage at 20th level) hello power attack. Let's see, a pair of +5 returning daggers, power attack for -10/+10, that's 1d4+15+8d6 damage each, for 2d4+30+16d6 damage.

All at just beyond melee range, mind. Oh, but wait, you didn't want to hear about every possible situation, just your pet "in melee range" setup.

Feh.

thats awesome except...you cannot power attack with daggers

 

[Darklone]

I wouldn't want to pin a FB either. They tend to win grapple checks too often.

 

[Uriel]

Frenzied Who???

MMM...Master Thrower

Palm Strike+Rapid Shot+Improved 2 Weapon Fighting+Greater Two-Weapon Fighting+Weak Strike+ Base of +13/8/3 means 14 possible daggers per round. Combined with Sneaks...

That's a max of 672 HP damage if I roll max on all sneaks, and crits (sneaks not multiplied). Without magic bonuses.
D4+2specialization X2crit=12+36 sneak=48X14 hits. And they are touch attacks...

The above comes from a 13th Level Gestalt character that I am about to play on the Playing boards.

Even as a normal Fighter/Rogue, you will be throwing 10 daggers for a possible 280 max HP or so, given only 3D6Sneak/crits from a normal character <5th Rogue,3rd Fighter,5th master thrower>, not counting magic weapons,but adding Wpn Spec (Palm Strike precludes STR bonuses)

Yes, I know someone said melee, but I'll take the MT over the FB any day. Kind of hard to enter your 'deathless frenzy' when I get the drop on you and fill you full of holes...

 

[Darklone]

Ten daggers per round? With a BAB +11? I can see 6 plus one haste plus one Rapid Shot...

Ah well, I would have liked better descriptions of the MT abilities...

 

[Pax]

thats awesome except...you cannot power attack with daggers

Who ever said they were small daggers? Note the damage I cited for a halfling with daggers - 1d4. Small daggers (a light weapon for the halfling) deal 1d3. Those were human-scale daggers ... and thus, one-handed weapons, instead of light, for my wee little halfling. Granted, he takes a penalty for wielding weapons of the wrong size, but a dagger is a dagger, even if it's an especially big dagger. ^_^

Ten daggers per round? With a BAB +11? I can see 6 plus one haste plus one Rapid Shot...

Palm Throw ... every "throw" is, in fact, two daggers, with the same attack roll.

So it's +11/+6/+1 with the primary hand, +11/+6/+1 with the off-hand. Add a +11 for haste, and a +11 for Rapid Shot (before attribute bonusses, rapid shot penalties, or dual-wielding penalties, of course). So, we have a base of +11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1/+1 - seven attacks.

Each of them for two daggers per attack roll, for fourteen daggers thrown per full attack. You don't get sneak attack damage twice per attack roll, though. You do get two daggers' worth of damage - so if your damage is, say, 1d4+5 normally, you'd get 2d4+10 with a Palm Throw.

The main catch is, Palm Throw (and Weak Spot) prohibit you from using your strength bonus on the damage roll - a really intelligent swashbuckler can still use their intelligence modifier, though. ^_^

Ah well, I would have liked better descriptions of the MT abilities...

Funny, I didn't find the descriptions to be unclear at all ...

 

[Impeesa]

MMM...Master Thrower

Palm Strike+Rapid Shot+Improved 2 Weapon Fighting+Greater Two-Weapon Fighting+Weak Strike+ Base of +13/8/3 means 14 possible daggers per round. Combined with Sneaks...

That's a max of 672 HP damage if I roll max on all sneaks, and crits (sneaks not multiplied). Without magic bonuses.
D4+2specialization X2crit=12+36 sneak=48X14 hits. And they are touch attacks...

The above comes from a 13th Level Gestalt character that I am about to play on the Playing boards.

Even as a normal Fighter/Rogue, you will be throwing 10 daggers for a possible 280 max HP or so, given only 3D6Sneak/crits from a normal character <5th Rogue,3rd Fighter,5th master thrower>, not counting magic weapons,but adding Wpn Spec (Palm Strike precludes STR bonuses)

Yes, I know someone said melee, but I'll take the MT over the FB any day. Kind of hard to enter your 'deathless frenzy' when I get the drop on you and fill you full of holes...

Only 280 max? I'm guessing a well-built FB could live through an average full attack, without even counting him entering an instantaneous (deathless) frenzy after the first hit. Thanks to most likely having barbarian levels, he's got a higher speed and can likely reach you quickly with a charge. Hope you've boosted your con - it's a sad FB that can't force a massive damage save on a halfway-decent hit at that level.

--Impeesa--

 

[Uriel]

Each of them for two daggers per attack roll, for fourteen daggers thrown per full attack. You don't get sneak attack damage twice per attack roll, though. You do get two daggers' worth of damage - so if your damage is, say, 1d4+5 normally, you'd get 2d4+10 with a Palm Throw.

The main catch is, Palm Throw (and Weak Spot) prohibit you from using your strength bonus on the damage roll - a really intelligent swashbuckler can still use their intelligence modifier, though. ^_^

Mine has 3 Swashbuckler Levels. Nowhere in Palm Strike does it say that you don't get the Sneak damage with each attack.
I am fully aware that Manyshot doesn't allow a Sneak for both, but, unless you show me where it says that Palm Strike doesn't allow for Sneak on both, I believe that it does allow for it.
Again, I am not being snippy, and I would sincerely want to see if a prohibition is in the rules somewhere, as I am a 'By-the-Rules' sort of guy.

 

[Uriel]

Only 280 max? I'm guessing a well-built FB could live through an average full attack, without even counting him entering an instantaneous (deathless) frenzy after the first hit. Thanks to most likely having barbarian levels, he's got a higher speed and can likely reach you quickly with a charge. Hope you've boosted your con - it's a sad FB that can't force a massive damage save on a halfway-decent hit at that level.

--Impeesa--

To Quote the FB, he/she enters Frenzy at the start of his/her next action, not after the first hit. He/she is dead by his/her next action.


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