D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Reynard]

Yup. There were a couple things even I didn’t believe and Ben had the proof to back his statements up.

I think Riggs has to be careful that he doesn't slip from being a historian to getting involved in the current politics of the situation.

 

[darjr]

I think Riggs has to be careful that he doesn't slip from being a historian to getting involved in the current politics of the situation.

He knows, and I don’t disagree.

 

[The Grinning Frog]

As someone who loves 4e to the centre of his dark little heart this is very interesting. It also sadly highlights on of the issues with the whole RPG space which is that people really need to chill a bit. So magic missile can miss... okay, fine, whatever. Either change it for your table or accept it. (Also, and I'd have to dig around, but I have a feeling I saw an auto hit magic missile in official 4e paperwork. Maybe the starter set but I could be wrong.)

Anyway, if the fans, i.e. all of us, could be less reactionary, maybe we'd have more nice things. It's a thought.

Anyway, I came on to say thanks for posting the above. I wasn't at GenCon so great to get this info.

 

[darjr]

@Alzrius i do gotta add that I think the comments about Ben does your article a disservice. And are not in my opinion and experience correct.

 

[Voadam]

Also, and I'd have to dig around, but I have a feeling I saw an auto hit magic missile in official 4e paperwork. Maybe the starter set but I could be wrong.)

In the 4e Essentials soft reboot.

Heroes of the Fallen Lands page 203.

Level 1: Magic Missile
Every mage learns this spell as part of his or her arcane studies. What magic missile lacks in strength, it compensates for with unparalleled accuracy. Neither the heaviest armor nor the toughest hide offers any defense against this spell.
Benefit: You gain the magic missile power.
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1
A glowing blue bolt of magical energy hurtles from your finger and unerringly strikes your target.
At-Will ✦ Arcane, Evocation, Force, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 20
Target: One creature
Effect: 2 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 11: 3 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Level 21: 5 + Intelligence modifier force damage.
Special: If the implement used with this power has an enhancement bonus, add that bonus to the damage. In addition, you can use this power as a ranged basic attack.

 

[Pedantic]

(Also, and I'd have to dig around, but I have a feeling I saw an auto hit magic missile in official 4e paperwork. Maybe the starter set but I could be wrong.)

It was added as a Wizard power in the Essentials line of books later, probably precisely in an attempt to cure this perception.

 

[darjr]

It was added as a Wizard power in the Essentials line of books later, probably precisely in an attempt to cure this perception.

Added much later and essentials was very controversial at the time too.

 

[darjr]

I did mention to Ben that he’s likely to get a lot of flack for his work and revelations. He said “Bring it on!”

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

One final note of interest: Riggs mentioned that he couldn't get anyone to talk to him about what's going on with One D&D, but that it seems emblematic of WotC still having a culture of warring factions. His big example there was how Mike Mearls, who wrote the 5E PHB (which according to Riggs' estimate has sold at least 3 million copies, if not more), is currently working on Magic: the Gathering instead of D&D. John Tynes, who wrote three of the top six best RPGs according to RPG.net, is also currently working on M:tG and not role-playing games. "Something," Riggs noted, "is rotten at Wizards of the Coast."

It is an enduring and curious quality of D&D that it continues to do well, despite the best efforts of the companies that own it to turn wine into water.

 

[Voadam]

• According to a chart he put up, the AD&D 1st Edition Players Handbook sold 1.5 million copies. The AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Handbook (including the revised version, which he says sold almost nothing) sold 1 million copies. The D&D 3.0 Player's Handbook sold just shy of 370,000 copies, while the 3.5 PHB sold a little over 300,000 copies.
• Here, Riggs stressed that the 3.0 and 3.5 numbers were particularly unreliable, because they only covered January of 2001 through December of 2006. That left off not only the initial sales of 3.0 (which was released in the summer of 2000, and here Riggs noted that Ryan Dancey had told him that if that time period was included, it would have almost doubled the sales numbers for the 3.0 PHB) but also any lingering sales of the 3.5 PHB.
• So why were the numbers for 3.X so much lower than even 2E? According to him, the Hasbro execs were of the opinion that it was because World of Warcraft (which released in late 2004) was eating their lunch.

That timeline seems not to match up so at first glance this seems an odd conclusion.

WoW in late 2004 does not really account for any underperformance of 3e stuff from 2000-2004.

I don't have the numbers and charts in front of me to say whether 3e started off matching AD&D but then 2004 was the start of a huge drop off that killed a huge continuing tail end of sales that had been the AD&D norm.

Could be, but not obvious without numbers showing that.

One big point for the AD&D 1.5 and 1 million copies sold each edition from the numbers presented here is also that it is a period from 1978(?)-2000, compared to the six year period of 3e sales data, which might be a little more than a million if the initial 3.0 period doubles the 3.0 sales as suggested.