D&D 5E Do we need a Fifth Edition Revival (5ER)?

Ben Riggs, a D&D historian, caused quite a stir this week when he pronounced The Golden Age of TTRPGs is Dead. Riggs describes the 2010s as a booming period for tabletop role-playing games, marked by a massive influx of new players and innovative game design, primarily fueled by the success of D&D 5E. But, with the death of the OGL and the fracturing of the fantasy RPG market, he thinks the "grand era" of Fifth Edition is sputtering out.

I won't deny that it feels like something has died in the Fifth Edition ecosystem. The attempt to change the OGL rocked the confidence of those third-party game designers who relied on it for their livelihood. Many abandoned the 5E system. With trust in Hasbro at an all-time low, it was a poor moment to try and build excitement for the next edition of D&D, which is consequently being treated with trepidation. Compared with a few years ago, new Hasbro books now often meet with indifference on release, and it seems every move from the company is criticized. Regardless of the game content, it does seem that Hasbro believes “the future is digital” for D&D, which means the content locked to a proprietary platform, the threat of subscription fees, and an increasing emphasis on micro-transactions. For many folks, this is not the D&D experience they want.

But, if there has been a death, there is also the possibility of a rebirth. Many of you will be familiar with the Old School Revival (OSR), a movement within the RPG community that embraces the style, mechanics, and aesthetics of early D&D. It is a thriving and innovative space with numerous blogs, vodcasts, podcasts, and published books, all recognized as part of the same broad scene. This ecosystem exists despite no official source of rules and no central authority.

In the same way, some game designers have started discussing a Fifth Edition Revival (or 5ER, a term coined by heavyarms). It is a “revival” in the sense that we are bringing life back to the game that so many of us have loved. This movement would be bound together, not by official material from Hasbro, but by the core 5E mechanics, a few common play styles, and an active conversation with the rest of the community. In an ideal world, the 5ER would gain a reputation for work as fresh and innovative as the material we see from the OSR, with DMs incorporating what works at their table. In this scenario, Hasbro's new releases are no longer canon-defining pronouncements but optional rules each table assesses on their merits. Hasbro cannot “ruin the game” with a new release, anymore than Kobold press or EnWorld could “ruin the game” with a new book. In the world of the 5ER, Fifth Edition belongs to you.

There are a couple of objections. First and most obvious, you might say that Fifth Edition is far from dead, so it clearly does not need to be revived. To be clear, Riggs talked about the “Golden Age” being dead rather than the whole game. I like the word “revival” because of it’s parallels with the Old School Revival, but let’s not get hung up on the word. We can call it the Fifth Edition Renaissance or the Fifth Edition Refresh or the Fifth Edition Reimagined or the Fifth Edition Remixed or the Fifth Edition Reclaimed the Fifth Edition Revitalized or the Fifth Edition Reawakened. Whatever works.

Next, you might point to wonderful books like EnWorld's A5E or the many Kobold Press products and say we are already there. We already have a thriving third-party ecosystem, and most DMs house-rule to some extent. So, doesn’t the 5ER already exist? I’m partially convinced by this. But I'd respond that the 5E community is still very Hasbro-centric and creators feel constrained to remain in step with them, resulting in a rather siloed ecosystem. It doesn’t feel like there is much interactivity between designers, and there is certainly very little “building” upon each others material. That is almost taboo in the 5E community.

The inability to publish material on D&D Beyond is also an enormous barrier for third-party publishers (3PP.) Anecdotally, 3PP products tend to be more read than played, maybe because of this. To have a true Fifth Edition Revival, we need many more Dungeon Masters willing to explore and incorporate 3PP, whether published by professionals or amateurs or even rank beginners. More so, we need a 5E creator community that cultivates new mechanics and experiences in an open and ongoing dialogue. And we need a consumer community that is engaged with the space. Even if we have all of the former things, I’m not sure we yet have the latter. It is very challenging for new creators to find an audience for 5E material on DTRPG, for example.

Even if we achieve all that, Ben Riggs might object that it will not replace what we lost. After all, the most popular third-party D&D books "only" acquire from 10,000 to 30,000 supporters when they crowdfund. In contrast, the original Fifth Edition PHB has sold an eye-watering five million physical copies (estimated), not to mention numerous digital copies. It is hard to see Hasbro, let alone anyone else, repeating this success. So, perhaps we have to concede that the Golden Age of 5E is indeed over. However, a Fifth Edition Revival might be a vibrant and worthy Silver Age successor.

This was originally published on my blog. I have updated it to clarify and expand some points.
 
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FallenRX

Adventurer
My issue is i dont think think 5e is even dead enough yet to consider this, and the problem is "official" is the reason why it was so unified to begin with, and also because that is the version and idea pedaled and taught in stores worldwide, you cannot make a successor without having that legitimacy, it is important.

The only hope for a 5e revival is if WotC earns back trust with 1dnd, but that remains to be seen(and i dont think its gonna happen.)
 

My issue is i dont think think 5e is even dead enough yet to consider this, and the problem is "official" is the reason why it was so unified to begin with, and also because that is the version and idea pedaled and taught in stores worldwide, you cannot make a successor without having that legitimacy, it is important.

The only hope for a 5e revival is if WotC earns back trust with 1dnd, but that remains to be seen(and i dont think its gonna happen.
I don't think it's going to happen either, so what are the options left for those of us who love 5E? One way is for a community to "take ownership" of 5E in the same was the OSR took ownership of B/W.
 

FallenRX

Adventurer
I don't think it's going to happen either, so what are the options left for those of us who love 5E? One way is for a community to "take ownership" of 5E in the same was the OSR took ownership of B/W.
I feel the OSR can do that because it is a smaller grassroots ground-up movement, this one isnt i feel, it was a top down thing, that started with legitimacy and legacy and ends with it, I feel this may happen one day, but it will be long after 5e.
In the end the next time something like this will happen is whenever the new edition of dnd drops, thats the only time this ever happens, because the ttrpg community can rally around a thing they all know and understand, and plus DnD is the only frame of reference mainstream people have to TTRPGs the idea of it doesnt exist in pop culture beyond DnD yet, so the scene only grows with that with a influx of new players who want to try the tradition of DnD.(This is what Ben Riggs is talking about really).

So yea, i mean i feel people can still support 5e, plenty of new systems for it dropping, we will see if there is any movement, but i feel it will not be the same due to general fragmentation and people rather just playing the original, especially since that is the main one sold in stores in a wide scale.
 

Retreater

Legend
Well, I'm excited to branch out to more 3PP 5e-compatible content, ranging from Metis Creative's Historica Arcanum, EN Publishing's Level Up, MCDM's Flee Mortals, and more than I can name.
I would prefer more of my gaming dollars go to companies other than Hasbro, just to support indie developers and small businesses. I don't plan to get the 2024 books at all, nor to purchase new Hasbro content such as the Vecna adventure.
 


Scribe

Legend
I don't think it's going to happen either, so what are the options left for those of us who love 5E? One way is for a community to "take ownership" of 5E in the same was the OSR took ownership of B/W.

I think its possible (as in the potential exists in the core/root) but it would take someone with far more vision and passion and (most critically) networking, to make it happen.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I think you're right, @M.T. Black, that the big issue is how far designers (and players) are willing to stray from WotC 5E's baseline. Even the wild and craziest 5E material -- the leveless, non-combat spells in Metal Weave's Incantations, maybe -- are very clearly supplementary to the game in the way it's regularly played.

No one is ripping apart 5E and rebuilding it the way that, say, Whitehack or the Black Sword Hack have done in the OSR movement.

Part of that, I suspect, is that the audience is mostly interested in traditional gameplay models. I don't have firm numbers -- if firm numbers can exist without a marketing survey no one would pay for -- but I suspect more folks play pretty traditional D&D style games with OSR retroclones than play the wild and crazy OSR stuff assembled like Lego from its component parts. Dolmenwood may not use all traditional classes, races, spells and monsters, but no one in 1981 would be confused about how to play it if a copy fell back in time through a wormhole.

I think the 5E chassis is, by and large, the best "advanced" ruleset D&D has ever seen, so there's definitely a lot of good Lego to play with. And I do hope we will see people doing crazy stuff with it. I think it will require designers to blaze a trail by themselves and hope that someone wants to follow, rather than it being the safe commercial path of doing books in the WotC mold. (Tales of the Valiant's deviance from the WotC version of 5E is a matter of degrees, not any major break, by design.)
 
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Oofta

Legend
Supporter
He's a valued member of the EN World community, a brand-name writer and an extremely well-known and respected adventure creator so ... no?
I just get tired of constant "The sky is falling" threads. Have we hit a peak? Maybe, maybe not. I have no issue with diversification and competition, I think it's healthy for the hobby. I just think it's a bit early for the eulogy.

EDIT: I mean no disrespect to anyone. But it's a complicate topic and reasonable people can disagree. I certainly don't have a crystal ball to see what's happening and what will happen.
 

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