An elegant solution to unfun combat healing

[Varianor Abroad]

Lengthen casting times: Cure minor wounds, standard action. Cure light wounds, full-round action. Other curing spells, 1 minute. Bam, almost no more healing in combat. And rather more literary and less videogamey to boot.

Arcana Evolved has this. The better healing spell, transfer wounds, takes a full round action and the caster takes subdual. The faster spell, battle healing, is a higher level, but does a lower die of healing. The caster takes no subdual. This works differently, but not necessarily better, than in standard D&D. In D&D, I found myself ramping up the monsters to do more damage since I knew players could heal more. In AE, as a player, I found it frustrating at times that I had to suck it up with a higher spell slot to heal less. Where AE got it right though was in spreading out the healing options to more PCs (all spellcasters can heal). I'm curious to see what the 4E design team comes up with.

 

[Woas]

Arcana Evolved has this. The better healing spell, transfer wounds, takes a full round action and the caster takes subdual. The faster spell, battle healing, is a higher level, but does a lower die of healing. The caster takes no subdual. This works differently, but not necessarily better, than in standard D&D. In D&D, I found myself ramping up the monsters to do more damage since I knew players could heal more. In AE, as a player, I found it frustrating at times that I had to suck it up with a higher spell slot to heal less. Where AE got it right though was in spreading out the healing options to more PCs (all spellcasters can heal). I'm curious to see what the 4E design team comes up with.

Also add in the fact that a spellcaster could take certain feats to cast healing spells at range. But you are spot on about letting ALL casters take on the burden of healing. When a fighter eats a breath weapon and then full round attack from some big nasty monster he doesn't have to turn JUST to the cleric with puppy eyes begging for a heal. Since the party could potentially have several characters that can heal then the one that can get to the fighter the easiest does so.

 

[The Grackle]

For the record, one of my favorite characters was a cleric/combat medic who did exactly that. He had a Spiritual Weapon that was a giant boot (cleric of mercury, spiritual weapon was a winged shoe... don't ask). It was his primary attack method because the campaign was so deadly that the rest of the time he ran around healing people. Everyone laughed, but my damage output was close to the rest of the party, and they'd all have died every single fight without me.

"Questioning the boot is a bootable offense."

 

[KarinsDad]

I prefer solutions like Lesser Vigor.

In our 20 round mega-fight yesterday (being outnumbered 15 to 5 plus an animal companion, the PCs actually tried to ambush the Emerald Claw Camp in Shadows of the Last War and won), the 2nd level PC Druid got seriously hurt, so he cast Lessor Vigor on himself.

Later on in the fight, he got knocked unconscious. The fight moved away from him and he eventually woke back up, got up, cast Cure Light Wounds on himself, and waded back into combat.

The PC warforged, on the other hand, went down around round 8 and nobody had the opportunity to try to even help him until the very end of the fight during mop up.

So for the player of the warforged, it probably became a bit boring to just sit there and watch the rest of the battle. With more combat healing type solutions, he might have had the opportunity to join back in.


But like others, I prefer in-combat solutions as opposed to pre-combat solutions. In-combat solutions require tactics. Pre-combat solutions remove tactics and take some of the fun out of the game. IMO.

 

[The Grackle]

There is a sample encounter vs a dragon on the D&D website, and one of the last things to happen is the cleric gets a crit on the dragon, which lets him heal the wizard. Sounds like orc mischief to me.

I don't think they're going to change in-combat healing or the cleric's role as medic that much. I think they'll make a few more options for clerics -- like healing an ally on a crit or as an immediate action (heal of opportunity?) -- so that the cleric can heal and still get in a few punches, b/c that's fun.

I'm all for some more healing options. I never understood why a cleric, usually heavily armored and slow-moving, couldn't cure at range. Spending a round to heal someone is fine, but spending a round to run over there, and a second round to heal kinda' sucks.

 

[ShadowX]

I have said it before and I will say it again, Third Edition already discourages in-combat healing. Usually it is a far better option to take out the threat promptly than throw out the seriously weak heals of D&D, especially because Clerics and Druids (the supposed healer archetypes) in fact have a wide variety of very effective options that are not healing. The spell Heal tilts the balance completely and is one of the best 6th level spells for Clerics, but this just showcases the problems with in-combat healing. You either err on the side of most MMORPGs where healing is so critical and overpowered that classes able to do so are relegated solely to casting healing spells or you have the 3e problem where healing is easily outclassed by damage.

Thus, considering the difficulties in finding the sweet spot for healing, I would add my voice to removing in-combat healing. This also defuses the many claims that healing is "boring."

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

That's the aesthetic that leaves me cold. A smite that gives out healing power is just too "out there" for me, even in a world where dragons fly and men cast fireballs. It's like a spell that casts a fireball, makes you fly, and trims your toenails all at the same time. Now, a spell that made you invisible and cast Dimension door I could see - an "Evasion" spell so to speak. But damaging and healing in one spell just doesn't fit thematically to me.

To each his own, I guess. I figure that holy power already covers harming evil things and healing good things, so it's not a big stretch.

If I were a cleric I'd be doing it every freaking round, kitted out in plate mail and shield, with a mace and an attitude. I'd have the whole party at full hit points all the time, with no loss of action or resources.

You're assuming it's not a 1/encounter ability.

 

[Garboshnik]

I have said it before and I will say it again, Third Edition already discourages in-combat healing. Usually it is a far better option to take out the threat promptly than throw out the seriously weak heals of D&D, especially because Clerics and Druids (the supposed healer archetypes) in fact have a wide variety of very effective options that are not healing. The spell Heal tilts the balance completely and is one of the best 6th level spells for Clerics, but this just showcases the problems with in-combat healing. You either err on the side of most MMORPGs where healing is so critical and overpowered that classes able to do so are relegated solely to casting healing spells or you have the 3e problem where healing is easily outclassed by damage.

I would agree with this. At low levels healing is not that much of a deal and it certainly does not take up all the clerics time. Heal suddenly makes healing efficient (and cures status effects too!) and Mass Heal just blows the doors open at high levels. No longer can a fight be dramatic by gradually taking the party down to low HP as they can all spring up to full several times per day. A really tough encounter will require dealing enough damage to require several castings of the spell. Have fun dealing damage at that rate without constantly killing individual PC's!

 

[Christian]

What is this Crusader power everyone keeps mentioning?

I don't see that anyone answered this ... For the record, the Devoted Spirit martial discipline includes stances and maneuvers that issue 'automatic' healing. Egs. the Aura of Triumph stance, which heals 4 points of damage to the Crusader and one ally within 10' on any successful melee attack made by either of the characters; or the Revitalizing Strike maneuver, which heals the Crusader or his ally 3d6+level on a successful strike against an active enemy of opposing alignment.

 

[Lackhand]

That's the aesthetic that leaves me cold. A smite that gives out healing power is just too "out there" for me, even in a world where dragons fly and men cast fireballs. It's like a spell that casts a fireball, makes you fly, and trims your toenails all at the same time. Now, a spell that made you invisible and cast Dimension door I could see - an "Evasion" spell so to speak. But damaging and healing in one spell just doesn't fit thematically to me.


If I were a cleric I'd be doing it every freaking round, kitted out in plate mail and shield, with a mace and an attitude. I'd have the whole party at full hit points all the time, with no loss of action or resources.

Don't worry, tho' I brought this thread back from the brink of death, it was while smiting a foe. Clearly.

Anyway -- Chalk me up for "bothered by smiting + bandaids, in one go", too. Henry said it best.

One fix that occurred to me was the bard's ability to use bardsong while taking other actions, so long as they weren't spellcasting and didn't involve speech.
A clerical healing power that used this mechanic might do the same thing as a heal + smite, filling whatever niche the designers were after, while removing the distasteful "I hit him so hard, my friends feel better!" aspects.

Similarly, a healing gaze 'attack' -- everyone who can see me and is my friend gets back 1 hp/round! I can focus on someone to give them more, as an action! -- might be fun, and fit the genre.

So might supplicatory healing -- the cleric invokes the healing aura, and the people who wish to be healed can spend actions to touch the cleric's cloak and heal; all the cleric has to do is look serene. And maybe hold still, a little; then again, maybe not.

A spell that brings down the heal and the harm can work, of course -- it's the specific image of the priest whaling on someone while wealing his team mates that bugs me. Divine radiance that heals friends and hurts foes is a natural.

Finally, there's always the concept of turning Spiritual Weapon sideways -- introduce a second level spell* that heals a friend once per round, freeing up the cleric to run around the battlefield with a holy weapon in one hand, a holy symbol in the other, and a rampant thirst for blood in the third.



* No actual second level spells need be used; generic, brand-X level spells may be substituted.