An elegant solution to unfun combat healing

[Henry]

It looks to me like a smite attack that gives off a wave of positive energy that heals anyone who has the smiting god's favour (read: allies).

That's the aesthetic that leaves me cold. A smite that gives out healing power is just too "out there" for me, even in a world where dragons fly and men cast fireballs. It's like a spell that casts a fireball, makes you fly, and trims your toenails all at the same time. Now, a spell that made you invisible and cast Dimension door I could see - an "Evasion" spell so to speak. But damaging and healing in one spell just doesn't fit thematically to me.

It also looks like the sort of thing that the cleric isn't going to do every round.

If I were a cleric I'd be doing it every freaking round, kitted out in plate mail and shield, with a mace and an attitude. I'd have the whole party at full hit points all the time, with no loss of action or resources.

 

[The Human Target]

My preference would be no in-combat healing. Your hit points should get you through combat, and if you run out, you're out of combat. Magical healing should be for things like curing disease and poison, restoring limbs, and fixing grievous wounds that would normally take days to heal.

So when you run out of hit points, you're out of speed and stamina to avoid being hurt. You should stop fighting or else you're liable to be hurt for real. Someone could cut off your arm, disembowel you, or pluck out your eye. Better to fall down and crawl to safety than to risk death.

Healing should heal wounds, and I don't want hit points to represent wounds, but rather stamina and luck and such.

We don't agree on a lot, but in this we are brothers.

 

[jasin]

That's the aesthetic that leaves me cold. A smite that gives out healing power is just too "out there" for me, even in a world where dragons fly and men cast fireballs. It's like a spell that casts a fireball, makes you fly, and trims your toenails all at the same time. Now, a spell that made you invisible and cast Dimension door I could see - an "Evasion" spell so to speak. But damaging and healing in one spell just doesn't fit thematically to me.

A smite + heal actual spell seems a bit off to me to, but I like the Bo9S maneuvers just fine. As described, they feel more like leadership/morale effects: rather than a burst of white goodly energy healing the wizard when you smack the dragon or anything like that, it's more that the wizard's morale recovers, your attack gives him the chance to catch his breath and the conviction to keep on fighting. It strongly reinforces the "hit points are kind of like physical toughness... but really not same" abstraction, but I don't have too much problem with that.

If I were a cleric I'd be doing it every freaking round, kitted out in plate mail and shield, with a mace and an attitude. I'd have the whole party at full hit points all the time, with no loss of action or resources.

I think he meant to say that the cleric might not be able to do it every round.

Then again, a crusader can keep healing at 2 least hp with every single hit from 1st-20th...

 

[Nifft]

Healing should heal wounds, and I don't want hit points to represent wounds, but rather stamina and luck and such.

My client, Mr. Injury Poison, would like a word with you.

Please step this way ... he's just at the end of this dark deserted alley...

Thanks, -- N

 

[Szatany]

As a cleric I want to cast a healing spell on occasion (lets say once per 3 rounds), but I really don't wanna do this every round. So IMO the best solution would be to give clerics few powerful heals per battle, and nothing else. That way he does his job but has also plenty of time for doing other stuff. Definitely no at will healing - because then he will have to use it!

 

[Jarrod]

I don't think failure is an unfun unfair punishment. It's just part of the game... "Oh if only I had made a better choice poor Merric the Thief would still be alive!!!"

The problem is not "I wish Merric was still alive". It's "Sorry, Bob, your character is dead because I decided to do something else. You better get started rolling up a new one."

My biggest problem with the cleric is that 3E sticks them in the role of saying "me, or the rest of the players". We have a high level cleric who used to cast a Cure _every round_ (combats were short and deadly - Age of Worms, I'm looking at *you*). He managed to get a feat chain that lets him auto-Quicken cure spells. Nice, but now he has to cast 1) a Cure and 2) a status remover every round. He isn't having more fun, and he's burning spells twice as fast.

Sure, he could do his own thing instead - but then people start dying. I blame the players for getting dependent on him, actually, but from the player's view it kinda sucks.

 

[Delta]

These are some awesome ideas. However, it also seems that the basic assumptions of the game would be strained, and probably a lot of work to adjust. Encounter balance seems to be dependent upon speedy casting by a dedicated healer.

Though, putting in the effort designing a new edition certainly sounds like an opportunity to try these ideas out. I guess it all depends upon the actual effort required, and how much of a sacred cow it is.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Szatany]

I have another idea, instead of casting healing spells the way he normally does, cleric can cast a protective spell as a immediate action that makes ally take less damage when they do?
It doesn't remove tension, it doesn't infringe on cleric's activities on his turn. Also, if there are at will heals, it doesn't allow to use them outside battle.

It also make it impossible for cleric to spoil the "dying stranger with a message" scenario.

 

[cerberus2112]

I very much would prefer the option to balance combat so that healing spells aren't necessary in the midst of combat (assuming your group is at full hp to start); after a fight, sure, great, make sure the party is at full hp before the next fight, but in the middle of a fight it just doesn't feel right. I'm with Aloisius and Ranger Wickett on this one, with the caveat that the game is balanced so that removing in-combat healing doesn't raise the lethality of the game.

 

[Gort]

Likewise. The tank-healer dynamic (where one player specialises in being hit and another specialises in healing him) is pretty boring to me. It basically removes the healing player from being able to do anything at all.

I'd like to see hitpoints as Rangerwickett suggests, but the cleric still able to remove debilitating effects like diseases and poisons.