Then they should have called it a gorilla, not an ape. Ape encompasses much more than just gorilla...
And they should have been more specific about what they mean by "Crab" or "Lizard" or "Cat" or "Poisonous Snake". Just because they didn't doesn't mean we can't look at the art for the Ape statblock, see a gorilla, and put two and two together.
That much water, even moving at 1.2 mph, is a tremedous amount of force to even more with let alone resist.
Probably not, of course, be as often as it might occur (who knows, right?) it would half the speed during those checks.
Yes, DC 20 does require training an higher than average ability to accomplish. Your average person would not be able to swim a mile and not drown.
Have you ever swum a mile? I have, in Boy Scouts, across a lake. With people in boats going with us to help if we got cramps, became fatigued, etc. Lake currents are not nearly as strong as the current flow of a river like the Mississippi. It isn't called "The Mighty Mississippi" for nothing, you know. Lake currents are only strong IF you near a river system of a lake.
Now, lakes can be "choppy" with worse waves, of course.
Well, I wouldn't argue those points because they don't have anything to do with the DC, as you point out. Distance determines time, and thus the number of checks. Armor simply hinders the speed.
You won't argue about the distance being 1 mile? Did I hallucinate that bolded text then? You literally did argue that. But yeah, there is no "1 mile limit" on swimming in DnD. You could swim in calm, clear water for
napkin mathing looks like around 12 miles without a single hint of a problem
Oh? No human on earth could do that because swimming is tiring, exhausting work? Yeah... that's sort of the point I'm making. The rules say, these things are possible even if they are beyond human.
But even beyond that, as I stated, the DC 20 is for swimming in the Mississippi River. It isn't for swimming a mile, or half a mile, or 10 ft, it is for swimming in it period. You cannot justify the DC by quoting the distance, then use the DC to show that you can't make the distance.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The DC doesn't change according to who is doing it. The DC would be 20 (or worse!). A trained swimmer who practices endurance swims, etc. would benefit from an actual bonus to the check, not +0, and would be swimming an full speed (since they are not wearing armor).
You are arguing backwards. I am saying that if untrained, average people can say "yeah, this is fine. I swim in it all the time" then it isn't a DC 20 check. I'm arguing the REAL LIFE PEOPLE who have ACTUALLY DONE IT are indicating that your insanely high DC is inpropriate.
Hmm... let me think.
Yeah, probably more familiar with them then you are.
Yep, moved goalposts. You said:
Nothing there about the distance you want him to travel, is there? 8 hour march in rough terrain (rough = difficult, right? I mean, they
are synonyms...) would only be 12 miles, not 24 anyway. And, you don't actually think it is 8 hours moving constantly, right? It is 8 hours in the course of the day of travelling, which includes periods of rest, eating, etc.
Even if I give you difficult terrain (Which I don't think I should) then the professor is lugging 80 lbs, 12 miles, through dense jungle, swamps, mountainous terrain. And, as you helpfully pointed out , that could actually be increased to 150 lbs with no change in speed.
And, again, most people recommend 30 lbs for hiking, and through a clear trail without debris or anything other than elevation changes, they say people make about 12 miles per day. So, sure, if you count elevation on a clearly marked, well maintained trail as equivalent to moving through a dense forest thicket, then this untrained professor is only carrying five times the recommended weight while making the hike. If you think a clearly marked and maintained trail with starirs in it, isn't difficult terrain... then they are moving twice as fast.
Well, not immediately.
I simply brought it up because it IS in the rules (not like a houserule or anything) and there explicitly for groups who want more detailed rules for how weight hinders movement. It is still "simple" but not overly simplified as the baseline RAW.
I mean, am I not allowed to bring up valid points about how the game was designed???
"If you change the base rules" doesn't really counter my point about what the base rules say.
Well, baseline IS forgiving, which is fine if you want to keep your game simple. I didn't immediate go to it, and it is there for a reason.
Humans IRL can accomplish things 1st level human fighters can't by RAW. Look at weight-lifting competitions. The most a PC can LIFT in RAW is 30 x STR. At 1st level, max human strength is 18, 20 if you allow the floating +2 ASI. That is 600 lbs, which is pathetic compared to real life world records...
Honestly, we BOTH know the rules aren't meant to express real life or simulate it. They are an approximation at best for a game.
True, and I consider that a problem. Not just for PCs, but it also means that massive predators per RAW can't actually drag off their prey.
LOL I'm having fun, aren't you?
No. Most of your points are pedantry and aren't even amusing to counter.
Yes. But what seems plausible to one person often isn't to another. Which is the issue as well.
True. That is my approach. However, plausible also stretches beyond real world for me. People can do INCREDIBLE things IRL, so going a bit further makes it fantasy for me, without necessarily being "magical" or "superhuman".
For example, a rogue leaping over 40 feet from the roof on one side of the street to another roof on the other side is certainly beyond real life, but in a fantasy setting it is something I can certainly imagine.
Sure, level of capacity is part of plausibility for me, too. The problem is comparing game designed creatures, rules, and systems to real-life facts. They rarely ever work out to be even close to each other.
Now, I mentioned the leaping rogue above. But I never mentioned his level, ability scores, or anything else. If it is plausible to me, I imagine he has whatever capacity is necessary for the task. But speaking of jumping, the rules don't allow for a PC to do a 30-foot running long jump without having a "magical/mystical" feature, such as Step of the Wind.
Honestly, level is convenient, just because it is something we will need to deal with as we make these abilities, and it can be a compromise. The rest is honestly just having to endlessly justify why fantasy heroes don't match 1 to 1 with real life human limitations, and why we don't need to spell out "MAGIC IS REAL" for everything.
Heck, I still have to justify why a warforged is held to the same limitations of earth humans, despite it being a well-established fact that robots, cyborgs and golems can achieve far more than humans can in most physical tasks.