D&D 5E Your Thoughts on the Paladin: Oath of Glory

[Paul Farquhar]

But not only does it not fit the ancient Greek idea of heroism, it doesn't fit any character concept that couldn't be just as well filled by a Vanilla Devotion paladin. It's redundant. Same theme, slightly different mechanics and spells.

The Oath of Heroism was at least Greek enough that we identified it as Greek before long Theros was announced. If they had put this one through UA it would never have occurred to anyone to associate it with Greece.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Good point. I'm now going to consider Theros a WotC-sanctioned ancient-Greek fanfic.

What have you been considering it before now? Because I'm pretty sure "Ancient Greek Fanfic" has pretty much been the identity of Theros since the beginning of its creation.

 

[Weiley31]

I like the UA version a bit more.

 

[Todd Roybark]

The Oath of Heroism was at least Greek enough that we identified it as Greek before long Theros was announced. If they had put this one through UA it would never have occurred to anyone to associate it with Greece

Here are the changes from the U/A Oath of Heroism vs the Retail Oath of Glory:
Expeditious Retreat on the Oath Spell List instead of Heroism.

Channel Divinity:
Legendary Strike. You can use your Channel Divinity as a bonus action to guide your attacks: for 1 minute, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20 on the d20

Instead of an Aura, the U/A had this instead:
Mighty Deed
7th-level Oath of Heroism feature
Your actions on the battlefield can supernaturally bolster your allies and demoralize your enemies. Whenever you score a critical hit or reduce a creature to 0 hit points, you can choose one or more creatures that you can see within 30 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). All the chosen creatures are affected by one of the following effects of your choice:
• The creature gains temporary hit points equal to 1d6 + your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 temporary hit point).
• The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC or be frightened of you until the start of your next turn.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until the start of your next turn.

The Living Myth capstone had no option to recharge via spell slot expenditure, and success was guaranteed on a Saving Throw re-roll in the U/A. It also lasted 10 minutes.

So expending a Channel Divinity to Crit Fish on a roll of 19, and not granting an Aura power, (in contravention of every other Paladin Subclass), SOMEHOW was more accurate to Ancient Greek Warriors ?

Sorry, that is a tenuous assertion at best, almost specious, frankly.

Oath of Glory, does not strike me as a Holy Knight.
If you play a Triton, it can be a decent Holy Diver.
Oath of Glory is mostly ranged weapon compatible. Peerless Athlete allows a Dexadin to mix it up in CBQ...via grapples and jumps....Ranged Support is limited to a few options on most Pally Subclasses.

 

[Leatherhead]

I could not disagree more. Of course Flight is better, but jumping is a poor persons way to change elevations, or grapple the back of a hydra.

Oh, no no no. That's Climbing, which is actually a decent movement option.

Jumping is a headache of interconnected rules.

• For starters it's measured in feet equal to your STR score, so you are moving partial squares when you jump. Having 10 str is just as effective as having 14 str, and having 19 str is the same has having 15 str on a grid. Unless you are high jumping, then you need add your height to the calculation with your STR Mod.
• Secondly, you have to get a proper run up or else you just lose half of your jump, so you can't even jump your full movement on a turn.
• Thirdly, you can actually have more jump speed than your movement speed will allow you to use (how absurd is that?)
• Fourthly, good luck convincing your DM to let you move in anything other than a line (or an arch).
• Fifthly, you use DEX(acrobatics) checks to land on your feet! So not only do you have to invest in STR(Athletics) to be good at jumping, you need an entire secondary stat and another skill to be good at landing!
• Sixthly, (That word doesn't even exist in my spellchecker, that's how many problems jumping has!) If you jump too high, you risk falling damage, it just takes 10' of falling to cause someone to land and crack themselves for a few d6's of damage.

I don't blame you for not remembering all of that. Jumping is such a pain that people tend to forget the rules around it until someone gets a wild hair about them, causing the table to look up the rules, see how fiddly they are, decide not to use them, and promptly forget about them till the next time.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

So expending a Channel Divinity to Crit Fish on a roll of 19, and not granting an Aura power, (in contravention of every other Paladin Subclass), SOMEHOW was more accurate to Ancient Greek Warriors ?

Yes. Because it puts the emphasis on individual attainment (look at how many dice of damage I just did), rather than the group.

5e has lots of group support focused paladins, it doesn't need another one. What it lacks is a "stuff the group, look at how cool I am" paladin. Oath of Heroism fit that empty niche. Oath of Glory is just yet another "yay team" paladin.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Yes. Because it puts the emphasis on individual attainment (look at how many dice of damage I just did), rather than the group.

5e has lots of group support focused paladins, it doesn't need another one. What it lacks is a "stuff the group, look at how cool I am" paladin. Oath of Heroism fit that empty niche. Oath of Glory is just yet another "yay team" paladin.

Exactly.

Not only does that hold up for the Trojan War in the Iliad and the subjugation of the Italian peninsula in the Aeneid, but it also describes the majority of King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table in Le Morte d'Arthur.

 

[Todd Roybark]

don't blame you for not remembering all of that

Well thank you for your absolution...not sure what I would have done with out it!
As for the condescension in your post, that seemingly, drips like puss from an infected wound...
...........I have a PHB, and an adequate memory.

Secondly, you have to get a proper run up

You just need a 10' run up to jump your STR score, (reduced to a 5' run up with the Athlete feat).

Thirdly, you can actually have more jump speed than your movement speed will allow you to use

Yup...so to sum up..the Oath of Glory has a Channel Divinity power that gives a character 10' bonus to both High and Long Jumps...and Advantage to Athletics and Acrobatics checks.
The Oath of Glory also gains a 10' enhancement to movement at 7th level.

So a 10 Str Oath of Glory Dexadin can jump like a 20 Str character.
A 10' enhancement to High Jump is immensely useful.

An Acrobatics check to not fall prone on landing is only needed if the terrain one is landing on is Difficult. Since a DM influences things like Ability Check DCs and if terrain is considered Difficult or not....it reads like perhaps either you or your DM, Leatherhead wants to hamper PCs that jump.

5e has lots of group support focused paladins, it doesn't need another one.

It does? How many Oath of Redemption Pallas do you see in play?
How many Paladin Oaths have effects that buff people other then the Paladin?

Elven Crit Fishing/Divine Smite Paladins with the PAM Feat Is a Thing for a reason.
That reason is usually to do impressive amounts of single target damage.

Paul, you are suggesting, without evidence, that every other Paladin Subclass is better at DPS and "group support". While I understand that is how you feel, I just don't think the facts support the assertion.

Forgive my self quotation, but I think it important, that I restate this:

If you don't like jumping, if you want to be the most powerful, and if you don't want to take the Inspiring Leader feat, then this subclass is probably not for you.