D&D 5E You Cant Fix The Class Imbalances IMHO

[Gradine]

I'm sure I'll regret that I asked, but: I'm sorry, what?

CW: sexual slavery

Oh, just that the incredibly rich and detailed domain management system that is, primarily, the selling point for the entire system, has plenty of rules about the maintenance and upkeep costs for a variety of employee relationships, up to and including slavery. What kinds of slaves, you may ask? Oh, all types! Laborers, soldiers, household, pleasure, and professional slaves all get special callouts in the rules! Here's the rules for pleasure slaves, if you were wondering:

Spoiler: Ew

Pleasure slaves are young and attractive slaves specially trained in the arts of seduction, performance, and pleasure. Historical examples include the Greek hetaera (courtesan) and Ottoman odalisque (harem slaves). Pleasure slaves usually have 1 or more ranks in Seduction, Performance (dance), or Labor (massage). Pleasure slaves can be bought in markets at a cost of 100gp to 1,000gp, depending on age, beauty, and level of training. Truly exceptional pleasure slaves can command virtually unlimited prices. All pleasure slaves cost 12gp per month in upkeep.

Don't worry though, they do take the time to indicate how they feel about their own predicament. It's not in the lovely paragraph above, but it is called out later that pleasure slaves have a base morale score of -2.

So. You know. That's what your paying for with ACKS.

 

[Micah Sweet]

CW: sexual slavery

Oh, just that the incredibly rich and detailed domain management system that is, primarily, the selling point for the entire system, has plenty of rules about the maintenance and upkeep costs for a variety of employee relationships, up to and including slavery. What kinds of slaves, you may ask? Oh, all types! Laborers, soldiers, household, pleasure, and professional slaves all get special callouts in the rules! Here's the rules for pleasure slaves, if you were wondering:

Spoiler: Ew

Pleasure slaves are young and attractive slaves specially trained in the arts of seduction, performance, and pleasure. Historical examples include the Greek hetaera (courtesan) and Ottoman odalisque (harem slaves). Pleasure slaves usually have 1 or more ranks in Seduction, Performance (dance), or Labor (massage). Pleasure slaves can be bought in markets at a cost of 100gp to 1,000gp, depending on age, beauty, and level of training. Truly exceptional pleasure slaves can command virtually unlimited prices. All pleasure slaves cost 12gp per month in upkeep.

Don't worry though, they do take the time to indicate how they feel about their own predicament. It's not in the lovely paragraph above, but it is called out later that pleasure slaves have a base morale score of -2.

So. You know. That's what your paying for with ACKS.

Slavery of many kinds was a thing in the late Antiquity era ACKS was designed to model. Like most other published settings, ACKS only uses it for the bad guys.

The rules are in there because they are designed to model as much of what can be modeled as possible, and good guys and bad guys alike use the same rules set for worldbuildibg purposes. So if you're designing the evil empire, that sort of thing is an option for them. Like most of the other modules in the game, it is completely ignorable if you don't want to use it.

Edit: also worth noting that the rules you're describing are a very small portion of one of the three core books, in addition to what I said above.

 

[Gradine]

Slavery of many kinds was a thing in the late Antiquity era ACKS was designed to model. Like most other published settings, ACKS only uses it for the bad guys.

This is patently false. These rules are player-facing.

In fact, when sharing these rules publicly, a fan responded: "Making slavery overt in the rules has very quickly resulted in my players actions shifting from slaughter to taking slaves"

To which the game's author responded "that’s awesome to hear! That sort of emergent play is my favorite part of ACKS campaigns."
Source: Slaves!

You can give all sorts of justifications you want for why a game might include rules for slavery, but to say that the rules only exist for villains is very clearly not true; not even in intention, let alone practice.

Folks deserve to know what they're getting themselves into. This is the kind of game they're getting out of ACKS.

And people wonder why the OSR has the reputation it does...

 

[overgeeked]

And people wonder why the OSR has the reputation it does...

To be fair there are a lot of people in the OSR who despise this kind of stuff. There are a few creators and fans who absolutely live down to the negative stereotype of the OSR. The creator in question is clearly one of them.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Not enough soap in the world to wash the slime I feel from reading that paragraph off.

Also, the choice to alter the term to 'pleasure slave' really reminds me of another game that tried to hide it's terrible worldview behind 'well antiquity'. You know the one.

 

[mamba]

Also, I don't believe that associating with an unpleasant person makes you unpleasant.

not everyone reliably every time, there are exceptions, but as a general rule…birds of a feather…

I judge people by what they believe and what they do.

this seems to be pretty established in this case, and they are not exonerated by that

And I judge a game by the game and not by what people say about the person who wrote it.

this is up to you, I can also see the side that says I am not supporting a person like that, even if the game is good (no idea if it is…)

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is patently false. These rules are player-facing.

In fact, when sharing these rules publicly, a fan responded: "Making slavery overt in the rules has very quickly resulted in my players actions shifting from slaughter to taking slaves"

To which the game's author responded "that’s awesome to hear! That sort of emergent play is my favorite part of ACKS campaigns."
Source: Slaves!

You can give all sorts of justifications you want for why a game might include rules for slavery, but to say that the rules only exist for villains is very clearly not true; not even in intention, let alone practice.

Folks deserve to know what they're getting themselves into. This is the kind of game they're getting out of ACKS.

And people wonder why the OSR has the reputation it does...

I really don't know what you mean by "getting into". ACKS I is a single core book with all the rules at the time. The author can't control what people decide to use; he himself doesn't have enslaving PCs in his own game as far as I know.

What do you think is the "kind of game" you're getting? One that has rules for pretty much everything, including unsavory practices? I already mentioned that his own setting uses slavery solely for the bad guys. If players want to start being slavers, that is a choice they are making, and if you want to call someone to task on it, how about start with them?

If you don't want slavery in your game at all, then don't use those rules for anyone. Having rules for it in the game is not condoning it in real life. And as I said, its a very small part of a very large game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

not everyone reliably every time, there are exceptions, but as a general rule…birds of a feather…


this seems to be pretty established in this case, and they are not exonerated by that


this is up to you, I can also see the side that says I am not supporting a person like that, even if the game is good (no idea if it is…)

I just don't see anything he's said or done, especially in the decade since this stuff became a huge public thing, that would indicate he holds unsavory beliefs. How is it "established"?

 

[mamba]

I just don't see anything he's said or done, especially in the decade since this stuff became a huge public thing, that would indicate he holds unsavory beliefs. How is it "established"?

CEO of Milo Inc, that settles it for me right there. Even having a relationship with Milo in any form shows this (as I said, birds of a feather, esp. true in those circles…)

There seems to be more, but I do not really need more as far as I am concerned (and the whole topic might not be one tolerated around here, so I leave it at that)

 

[Baron Opal II]

What I have done is the following:

Develop three magical guilds, which are the subclasses. Each guild has access to 12 spells of each level, 1st - 6th. One thematic spell per level is considered a guild secret. The abilities of the guilds are taken from the spell type lists. So, one guild has their special abilities taken from the Conjuration, Illusion, and Transmutation subclasses to have a guild taken from summoning pacts and Faerie lore. The houses from Ars Magica are a significant inspiration, here. About 60% of the spells are shared at lower levels, to about 25% at higher levels.

Wizards gain only one spell for free per level. (This is a major nerf. I know it doesn't seem like it, but it has been borne out through play.)

Researching a spell costs 500 gp and one week per level of spell. A caster check is made, and if failed a further week of time and money is required and another check. If you want to research a spell not on the list you can, but it is more difficult. The difficulty is increased and requires twice the costs. Spells that are considered guild secrets cannot be researched- there is too much hidden lore and special mindset required for someone outside the guild to discover the spell. (You've got to mean it, Harry!) The spell can be stolen, however, from scrolls or captured spellbooks.

Battlemasters have access to another maneuver- Disable Limb. On a failed save the attacker chooses a limb. Arm, attack at disadvantage. Leg, half move. Wing, grounded. Lasts until the end of their next turn.