D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Umbran]

First, sarcasm like all connotative speech is richer, it brings more meaning than denotative speech.

Mod Note:
First and foremost - moderation posts are not invitations to public discussion or comment. Per the rules of the site, if you want to comment to the moderator, you are asked to do it via PM, rather than in open thread.

Second: "Richer" does not always mean "better". Ice cream is also rich, but makes many people ill if they eat too much.

The written word is great, but it is also close to the lowest-bandwidth form of communication available to most humans. If you try to shove too much information down a low-bandwidth pipe, stuff gets lost.

The connotation of sarcasm is generally carried in vocal tone. Guess what you don't get in the written word? Vocal tone. So, your "richness" frequently gets lost.

Plus, rich or not, sarcasm generally communicates a certain disdain - which is fine when you and the audience hold the same disdain, but is destructive to the conversation as a whole if you aren't. In that way, it is failed communication, even if it is "rich".

In this space, sarcasm typically comes across as plain, dull, not very rich insult. Which is why you get red text and a hairy eyeball from a moderator.

Please be respectful. Please take any further comments on this you have out of the thread and into PMs. Thank you.

 

[Maxperson]

I think there's probably a rehabilitation factor at play as well. Like some people might rage at tieflings or the Feywild or whatever in their Dark Sun and then over time can distance themselves enough from that reaction and come to appreciate the content more. Time can be kind like that.

I think it's more likely that they were and probably still are upset at the tieflings and Feywild being in their Dark Sun, but liked the general story of 4e Dark Sun. Those are not mutually exclusive positions to take.

 

[Maxperson]

The 2 Dark Sun campaigns I played in and the stories that if read and heard back in the day. All the Good PCs in both campaigns were killed or enslaved.


Might have been bad luck playing or hearing of multiple cruel AD&D DS DMs.

Or bad decision making. I mean if a group of low leel PCs tries to free slaves in the middle of the city during the day with a bunch of NPCs(inluding templars) around, then...

You(general you) can be good, but you also have to be smart about it.

 

[James Gasik]

I did have a lot of fun in 4e when someone started griping about "all these new races" in their Dark Sun, and as the one they decided to use as their example, complained loudly about Dragonborn. "A race of dragon people in Dark Sun is ridiculous!"

"Hey, before we continue, do me a favor. Google 'dark sun dray'. Ah good, you found it. I'm not saying those are Dragonborn, but as you can see, a race of dragon people in Dark Sun is already a thing."

 

[Zehnseiter]

I did have a lot of fun in 4e when someone started griping about "all these new races" in their Dark Sun, and as the one they decided to use as their example, complained loudly about Dragonborn. "A race of dragon people in Dark Sun is ridiculous!"

"Hey, before we continue, do me a favor. Google 'dark sun dray'. Ah good, you found it. I'm not saying those are Dragonborn, but as you can see, a race of dragon people in Dark Sun is already a thing."

Well one could argue that Dark Sun already had Dragonborn years and one edition before they showed up in general D&D......
I mean they were the easiest an most obvious reskin you can imagine in the 4E version of Dark Sun.

Races of the Dragon was 2006. City by the Silt Sea was 1994.

 

[SkidAce]

That's my point.

4e went lighter and softer and killed a Kalak to give you a haven. And a temporary one because soon after slaver enemies come from everywhere.

And DS diehards hate 4e Dark Sun.

This would be incorrect.

 

[Minigiant]

Or bad decision making. I mean if a group of low leel PCs tries to free slaves in the middle of the city during the day with a bunch of NPCs(inluding templars) around, then...

You(general you) can be good, but you also have to be smart about it.

My fighter got assassinated in the hotel armorless by a slaver's merc.
Next fighter was beat down by a Psionicist's mind controlled muls.
Then my replacement replacement rogue got TPKed with everyone else by boosted defiler spells.

Then we rerolled as morally grey jerks.

 

[Maxperson]

My fighter got assassinated in the hotel armorless by a slaver's merc.
Next fighter was beat down by a Psionicist's mind controlled muls.
Then my replacement replacement rogue got TPKed with everyone else by boosted defiler spells.

Then we rerolled as morally grey jerks.

I mean, you were there, but based on that I don't see how morally grey jerks wouldn't have also been beat down by mind controlled muls or boosted defiler spells. That's not really alignment based. The slaver thing could have been revenge for something you did as a good guy against slavery, but how did the slaver know it was you?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes, but the second phase was still catastrophe, not climate change.

It was exactly that. Exploiting nature for short term gains, not regarding your debt to your children. Totally loaded theme these days.

 

[Maxperson]

It was exactly that. Exploiting nature for short term gains, not regarding your debt to your children. Totally loaded theme these days.

So defiling magic released green house gases into the air and slowly affected the climate? And debt is climate change? Really?

What you are describing is bad behavior. It's people disregarding what they are doing to the environment and future generations. That does not make what happened in Dark Sun climate change, though. It's just evil behavior.

Climate Change did not happen in Dark Sun. Cataclysmic defiling magic by evil people did.