[WoT] fixing the Wise Ones...

[Plane Sailing]

It seems a little strange to me that the Wise One prestige class has channelling as a prerequisite, whereas most of the Wise Ones actually have nothing to do with channelling.

Wouldn't it make much more sense to have "latent Dreamer" as one of the prereqs? To then give rapid access to the various dreaming feats as well as abilities related to strong will and manipulating people?

I certainly intend to do some of this for my game (although anyone is a way off from Wise One yet).

But while I'm waiting - do you agree? If it was moved away from channelling (someone takes initiate levels for that, after all), what other abilities (if any) should the Wise Ones get?

I'm certainly looking to focus on the Dreaming and Tel-aran-rhiodiddy aspects of them.

Cheers

 

[drothgery]

I haven't done write-ups, but I'd suggest replacing the exiting Wise One PrC with three PrCs.

1) A three-level Wise One PrC with no channeling pre-reqs, which all Wise Ones would have at least one level of.

2) A three-level Wise One Channeler PrC, which most/all channeling Wise Ones would have levels of.

3) A five-level Dreamwalker PrC.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Why would you have a dreamwalker prestige class that wasn't attached to anyone or anything?

Personally I think prestige classes work best when tied closely to a particular organisation or obvious group. I'd make dreamwalking Aes Sedai simply people who had picked up the appropriate feats. Wise Ones seem to be the agreed masters of dreamwalking (in as far as I've got, which is admittedly only book 5)

Cheers

 

[drothgery]

Why would you have a dreamwalker prestige class that wasn't attached to anyone or anything?

Personally I think prestige classes work best when tied closely to a particular organisation or obvious group. I'd make dreamwalking Aes Sedai simply people who had picked up the appropriate feats. Wise Ones seem to be the agreed masters of dreamwalking (in as far as I've got, which is admittedly only book 5)

Cheers

Maybe an Aiel Dreamwalker PrC? Egwene would probably be the only non-Wise One with levels in it.

What I really don't like is closely tying the generic 'Wise One' PrC to dreamwalking, as only four Wise Ones in the novels can dreamwalk (as opposed to two thousand or so that can channel, and another thousand or so that can neither channel nor dreamwalk), and one of the four dies in book 4.

 

[Florin]

It seems a little strange to me that the Wise One prestige class has channelling as a prerequisite, whereas most of the Wise Ones actually have nothing to do with channelling.

Wouldn't it make much more sense to have "latent Dreamer" as one of the prereqs? To then give rapid access to the various dreaming feats as well as abilities related to strong will and manipulating people?

By your reasoning above, making Latent Dreamer one of the prereqs doesn't make sense either, since very few of the Wise Ones are Latent Dreamers. In fact, I'd bet more of them can channel than are Latent Dreamers.

But while I'm waiting - do you agree? If it was moved away from channelling (someone takes initiate levels for that, after all), what other abilities (if any) should the Wise Ones get?

I disagree, because you are missing the point of the prestige class. The point of the prestige class isn't so that every single Wise One has it, just like the Aes Sedai prestige class isn't meant to be taken by every single Aes Sedai. (Charles Ryan has said that you could be raised to the shawl without taking the class.) The point of the Wise One prestige class is to simulate the training that Wise Ones receive about T'A'R and also to help with channeling.

If you look at the rules for Dreaming, all the feats you gain as a Wise One do you diddly-squat if you don't have the Latent Dreamer feat. However, if you ever end up in T'A'R, you would be able to use those feats. The class does what it's designed to do.

This brings me to your last point, there really is no need for a mundane Wise One PrC. That's why there is only one for channeling and Dreaming.

 

[pensiv]

just popping in to agree completely with Florin.

 

[CD]

I agree that you should be able to be a Wise One without the PrC. I think most Wise Ones would be Nobles.

 

[drothgery]

The problem with Wise One is pretty simple. The class sucks if you're not both capable of channeling (you can't take it if you can't channel, but since most Wise Ones can, that's not a huge issue) and capable of dreamwalking (this is a biggie, because only three Wise Ones can, and one of them can't channel).

I don't think it's approriate to have a 10-level class called 'Wise One' which maybe one Wise One in a thousand would even consider taking even 3 levels of, because if you don't have Latent Dreamer, the special abilities from levels 3,4,6, and 8 are useless.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I admit that I haven't read all the books yet, but as far as I've got it seems clear that most if not all Wise Ones dreamwalk. Very few are channelers, but pretty much *all* of them dreamwalk, watch people in their dreams and communicate with them that way.

Plus, along with the business about visiting Rhuidean to become a Wise One, a prestige class seems the IDEAL way of handling it. Certainly in my campaign someone couldn't become a wise one without it, nor could someone become Aes Sedai without taking the Aes Sedai prestige class (Whatever Charles may have said - author or not!)

 

[drothgery]

I admit that I haven't read all the books yet, but as far as I've got it seems clear that most if not all Wise Ones dreamwalk. Very few are channelers, but pretty much *all* of them dreamwalk, watch people in their dreams and communicate with them that way.

That's completely backwards.
Amys or Bair tells Egwene straight out, way back in The Shadow Rising that Amys, Bair, Melanie, and Seana are the only Wise Ones that can dreamwalk, and that Bair and Seana can't channel. Seana dies later in the book.

On the other hand there are more channeling Wise Ones than there are Aes Sedai.