D&D 5E Wizard: Signature spells prepped at higher levels?

[ZombieRoboNinja]

So here's a technical question: can wizards prep their signature spells at higher levels? Specifically, can a level 10 battle mage prep Thunderwave as a 5th-level spell (doing 6d6 damage and tossing enemies back 35 feet) and have it refresh every short rest? If so, this would be a big benefit for wizards, but it would also mean battle mages are significantly more powerful than the other traditions (since Academic mages don't get a signature spell and Color Spray doesn't improve at higher levels).

I think this might actually be a way to make signature spells both powerful and balanced: make more first-level spells that scale, and let the wizard choose among them for his signature spell. That way you don't have wizards spamming more problematic spells like Invisibility, Fly, Haste, and so on, but they can still do something impactful every encounter.

Here are some ways you could power up the current level-1 spells:

Color Spray: You can choose an additional color effect for each higher level. (They could add more color options so this could scale up past 3rd level.) So if you prep this as a second-level spell, you could slow AND frighten enemies.

Charm Person: Add an additional target per spell level.

Sleep: Add 2d8 hp of targets per spell level.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Something like this seems necessary. If a wizard is going to have a signature spell, it needs to remain a solid, mainstay option for his entire career.

 

[Ramaster]

What if we got rid spell levels altogether?

Here's magic missile! If you prepare it as a level 1 spell, it deals 1d4+1 DMG, if you prepare it as a second level spell, it deals 2d4+2 and so forth.

Teleport as a first level spell lets you move 10 feet per level as a full round action. By 3rd level it is like dimensional door, at 5th you get the classic teleport, 7th is greater and 9th is Interplanetary teleport.

That way it would be much easier and MUCH more meaningful to pick a signature spell. As side effects, you eliminate the infamous "Endless" list of possible spell picks and sorcerers suddenly become interesting.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

What if we got rid spell levels altogether?

Here's magic missile! If you prepare it as a level 1 spell, it deals 1d4+1 DMG, if you prepare it as a second level spell, it deals 2d4+2 and so forth.

Teleport as a first level spell lets you move 10 feet per level as a full round action. By 3rd level it is like dimensional door, at 5th you get the classic teleport, 7th is greater and 9th is Interplanetary teleport.

That way it would be much easier and MUCH more meaningful to pick a signature spell. As side effects, you eliminate the infamous "Endless" list of possible spell picks and sorcerers suddenly become interesting.

As an overall system I would indeed prefer something like this. But if we're trying to stick close to D&D roots here (which WOTC obviously is), we're stuck with leveled spells - and in fact, this idea would re-introduce one problem with "signature" spells.

The biggest argument against non-daily wizard spellcasting is that some of their spells become broken when they're not taking up daily resources. In particular, buffs and non-combat spells become broken pretty quickly. "Haste" or "Fly" is fine if the wizard is using up one of his precious limited slots to caste it, but if he can keep someone hasted every single combat it's a bit of a problem.

And to use your example, a level 9 wizard who can cast Teleport every 10 minutes can screw up a LOT of exploration challenges. (A level 9 wizard casting Dimension Door every 10 minutes, not so much.)

On the other hand, there's much less of a problem with low-level combat spells scaling to be level-appropriate. A level 10 illusionist SHOULD be able to brain-screw enemies with Color Spray every combat, and a level 10 battle mage SHOULD be able to send minions flying with his Thunderwave.

 

[Ramaster]

And to use your example, a level 9 wizard who can cast Teleport every 10 minutes can screw up a LOT of exploration challenges. (A level 9 wizard casting Dimension Door every 10 minutes, not so much.)

I think you may have misunderstood me. Spell slots remain, but spells lack level. Their power just depends on witch level they are prepared in.

So, a 3rd level wizard has, say, 3 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots.

If he prepares magic missile in all of them, he will have 3 1d4+1 magic missiles and 2 2d4+2 magic missiles.

That way, a 9 level wizard won't be able to cast teleport every 10 minutes, he still just has 2 9th level slots that let him cast the "traditional" teleport spell.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I think you may have misunderstood me. Spell slots remain, but spells lack level. Their power just depends on witch level they are prepared in.

So, a 3rd level wizard has, say, 3 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots.

If he prepares magic missile in all of them, he will have 3 1d4+1 magic missiles and 2 2d4+2 magic missiles.

That way, a 9 level wizard won't be able to cast teleport every 10 minutes, he still just has 2 9th level slots that let him cast the "traditional" teleport spell.

Yes, but if he has teleport as his "signature" spell that recharges every short rest, and he's allowed to prep it as a fifth-level spell (you said 9th but I assume you meant 5th) and still have it recharge, that means he gets... lots of teleporting.

 

[Ramaster]

Yes, but if he has teleport as his "signature" spell that recharges every short rest, and he's allowed to prep it as a fifth-level spell (you said 9th but I assume you meant 5th) and still have it recharge, that means he gets... lots of teleporting.

Oh, I see...

Yeah, you are right... back to the drawing board it is!

 

[mlund]

A signature spell for a tradition should probably evolve as you level. That could be a straight path of increased damage or bonus effects.

Honestly, it would be a more compelling system if there was some aspect of customization in how you build up your signature spell as you level. 15th level Pyromancer Jerry could have created "Great Balls of Fire" - a spell that started out as a dinky 5' radius mini-fireball at level one and has evolved to the point that if he casts it in a 7th level slot he gets a half-dozen hovering fireballs that he can unleash in a salvo. Meanwhile 15th level Pyromancer Bruce started out in the same path, but now he invokes the "Dragon of Flames" - a construct of magical flame that continuously strafes the battlefield with an incinerating aura.

- Marty Lund

 

[Tyrex]

If you can find a copy, I suggest ICE Spell Law (OOP) as a source for spell progression based upon level. This concept was fleshed out 30 years ago, but in IMHO was not well suited to the D&D game mechanic

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=6701652]Tyrex[/MENTION], Spell Law is available in PDF from RPGNow. And there is also an open playtest of a new edition, that anyone can take part in via the Iron Crown forums.