Wither Star Wars d20?

[teitan]

I will have to concur that Star Wars is a BETTER seller than anything not D&D by WOTC, including the D20 Modern line. Heck it sells better in the store I work at than almost anything that isn't D&D, M&M or White Wolf, including GURPS and Palladium.

The problem with the line is honestly the lack of adventure material. Sure they give a map here and there and hooks etc. but for a newbie, it doesn't really provide a good example of how to build an adventure and run one, just tips and advice. Adventures lose money sure, we KNOW that but the fact remains that ADVENTURES are what make or break a gaming product. I don't think Vampire and the rest of the WOD line would have went anywhere were it not for the Chicago Chronicles being so fun or Call of Cthulhu without the adventures packs they put out or D&D without adventures like Village of Hommlet or Keep on the Borderlands. Hell, M&M has Time of Crisis to give it a push and help a new GM understand how to run a game. Free adventures are GREAT and all but they also are not as PRACTICAL as store bought ones because not all of us have a printer or the funds to refill our precious ink cartridges etc. and published adventures feel more real to GMs and players, like they matter. Yes, STar Wars has that adventure that came out BEFORE the revision, like a month and that REALLY hurt its sales considering all the changes made to the system in revised. I HONESTLY believe that adventure support is essential to a successful gaming line and I think WOTC is seeing that with their trilogy of Eberron adventures and the fact that they announced they would be doing more adventures in the future. If they would just crank out a good Clone Wars adventure and a good Rebellion era adventure every 4-6 months I think that they could keep the game line going again and with the emphasis on the minis line being so big now, they could even taylor the adventures with mini sized tiles etc for the GMs to use.

I think another thing hurting sales is the hardcover format for EVERYTHING being released. Gamers love hardcovers sure but does EVERYTHING need to be hardcover? I think not. Considering the prices of these hardcovers are 30+ dollars it does not make it affordable no matter what that cost is compared to a movie ticket, video game or novel etc. It just doesn't. I tend to get my SW books for half off and I have almost the whole blasted line from WOTC but I got them off of Ebay because I can not afford to PAY full price. I can go to a movie, I can afford that but SW and D&D books are getting out of my bounds as the economy slips and prices continue to go up and I make decent money for a single guy. What is so damning about publishing 15-20 dollar paperbacks nowadays? Sure the covers MIGHT get bent etc but my softcover Realms books (also PRICEY) are in great shape, even my 2e softcover books are in decent shape like Code of the Harpers and Drow of the Underdark. I just don't get the hardcover infatuation. Kids can not afford hardcovers and this hardcover format is driving them away. I think special books like the CB and the Power of the Jedi and Darkside books are great as hardcovers but books like Corsuscant and Geonosis and the rest... meh.

Jason

 

[danbuter]

I hate to put you on the spot, but that statement smacks of opinion. I'd like to know if you have hard facts to back up your affirmation. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see how you can make such a specific statement without some raw data. :\

I agree with what others have said, more adventures (or "modules," as we grandpas used to call 'em in the old days) would have been helpful. (In my opinion. )

at least at my local LGS, the same Star Wars books have been sitting there for the last year or two. Nobody has bought a single one of them. DnD books sell like hotcakes, though, and they are immediately beside the Star Wars stuff.

 

[teitan]

I also wanted to add that it seems WOTC do not understand what is NECESSARY for Star Wars, especially AFTER the Revision. Their first FOUR releases post revision SHOULD have been an Equipment book (got that right they did), a NEW Starships of the Galaxy (how hard would it have been to go into the original product file and make the necessary changes for the new rules?), A Force sourcebook (again, got it right they did) aaaand a new adventure book. It could have been easy if they wanted to go purely hardcover on all this too, the equipment book and the Starships book could have been rolled into one book and the adventure book COULD have been a collection of several small adventures. I am sorry, the lack of D&D adventures for 3e early on was helped out by the D20 License and adventures from Necromancer and FDP but Star Wars wasn't OGL and it should have had adventure support. ITS THE CLONE WARS FOR GOD'S SAKE, they could have told stories set in the Clone Wars that would have had some impact on the canon and made the player's feel a real part of the universe!

 

[bubbalin]

About adventures...

I know this is just me, so don't jump on me, because this is just my single consumer perspective...

But I never buy adventures. I can't make myself pay for something I feel I can make up.
I have every star wars d20 book (and working on the D6 ones too) except for Tempest Feud. The only D6 adventures are ones I picked up as part fo a lot, and I feel ripped off somehow...

So, that's my opinion for what it's worth...

 

[teitan]

Yeah, MOST people don't buy adventures, yes, we know that but for every 2 people who don't buy adventures there is one that does. Adventures SELL systems. Where would Shadowrun be without Dreamchipper? Probably canned LONG ago.

Jason

 

[Narfellus]

I think Dungeon or Polyhedron (before they canned it) would have been the ideal avenue for SW d20 adventures. Not in every issue maybe, but i'm sure it would have fulfilled some niche need in the gaming community. I think d20 fantasy has adventures galore from magazine to third party developers and now WotC is jumping on too.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Poly WOULD have been a nice place to put some SWd20 material, but (lack of)licensing between paizo and the Lucas establishment might have prevented it. Im not sure either way if the lilcense that Hasbro is using (or completely ignoring, as the case may be) extends to paizo publishing.

 

[Narfellus]

I don't play d20 SW much but i have a lot of the books and i hate to hear that it might fall by the wayside. It was really a topnotch product, with wonderful accessories and a rich, rich universe to mine. There are hundreds of books GM's can mine for ideas, even if the actual number of published adventures is scarce. It seems that would be an easy thing to fill on the WotC site, some short (or medium) length introductory adventures to get new GM's into the swing of things. Maybe they did do that, but i don't think it was a regular thing.

 

[Neo]

Yeah, MOST people don't buy adventures, yes, we know that but for every 2 people who don't buy adventures there is one that does. Adventures SELL systems. Where would Shadowrun be without Dreamchipper? Probably canned LONG ago.

Jason

Im not sure I buy the notion that adventures sell systems... I have RPG'ed for 24 years and never ever in all honesty bought a system because of an adventure.
I bought Shadowrun for example because of the write up on the back of the book, word of mouth and reviews...adventures never even came into the equation and the same is true of all systems I've bought.

Adventures are one of those weird things for me.. I dont typically go out of my way to buy them..but the selling point for adventures with me is the "Extras".. its the new rules, creatures, PRC's, mini games etc..etc.. that sells an adventure to me as it means that little romp has some life beyond a single use, allowing it to contribute to my games beyond the singular story it essentially provides. In fact the only time I veer from this notion where adventures are concerned it with beginner modules.. I have often bought the first module released for a system simply to give myself a spring board from which to launch an initial campaign...but many systems include such springboard adventures in the main rules these days, which is nice.

With regards to Star Wars in general, I for one would be crushed if Wizards drop it by the way side as it is and deserves better than that even if it isnt a "big" money RPG franchise anymore... I like my Star Wars RPG and its books and I'd love there to be more.. and not for it to be devolved into a miniatures games only... The miniatures for me are something to use with my RPG not replace it.

 

[Sketchpad]

Personally, I'd really like to see a KotR offical book that cover the video games and comics. I agree that a new Starships book should've been one of the first out of the gate, as well as adding that a "campaign" book (ala the Galactic Campaign book) could've been useful at the time of release. In reality, if SW got the attention that d20 Modern has gotten, I think people would be complaining less and playing more