Why would a frost giant have a frost weapon?

[Arcane Runes Press]

A) Why are cold/fire creatures so keen on staying true to their "theme" then? Oh, you mean designers stick to the theme? Yeah, that's what I've been saying.

Cold/fire creatures stick to their "theme" because they are their theme.

Fire giants throw flaming rocks because they are based off the fire giants of Muspell in Norse myth. A fire giant king would most likely carry a big, flaming sword because Surtur, leader of the fire Jotuns, carried a big, flaming sword.

The sample frost giant Jarl uses a frost axe because he's an archetypal example of a frost giant from Jotenheim.

This isn't an example of designers being lazy, or unimaginative. It's an example of designers deciding to stay at least partly true to mythology.

 

[Jolly Giant]

This is a good point that I hadn't considered and I concede the point to you. In regards to my other four points, have I changed your mind concerning the design of Frost Giants (taking into consideration that yes, Frost Giants is just an example that you chose at the beginning of the thread.)?

T from Three Haligonians

I have no problem with the frostgiant in MM, in fact they are my favorite giants. What bugs me is that every time a cold or fire type NPC is detailed somewhere it uses weapons and/or spells that matches its type. To me that gets boring after a while.

I can definitely see your point about designers wanting to avoid a lot of questions about why a NPC was issued with a certain weapon/spell, but that really just supports my original point: The FG jarl doesn't have that +2 frost axe because it makes any special kind of sense for him to have it! No, he has it because it's the expected (even clichè) weapon for him to have.

 

[Jolly Giant]

Maybe you don't like your elves with pointy ears, and hey you're free to have non-pointy eared elves in your game. But alot of folks, the majority I'd venture to say, like their elves with pointy ears (traditional fantasy like), just the same way they like their fire creatures using fire attacks (traditional fantasy like) and their cold creatures using cold stuff (again, traditional fantasy like).

I don't think your argument is quite valid here. What a creature IS and what it chooses to use are to different things. Sure, elves have pointy ears in my campaign world too, but not every elf in my world carries a longbow! Some actually prefer other weapons.

I realize that elves don't have a "archer" subtype, whereas frostgiants do have the cold subtype. That doesn't mean that any their magic weapons they automatically has to be frost weapons, though.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

An evil fey IMC would definitely go for a cold iron weapon if he could get one, although he'd want it to be something with a wooden handle; like an axe or mace.

As Fey, simply holding the cold iron would not do any damage, so why would a fey want a Cold Iron weapon to have a wooden handle?

T from Three Haligonians

PS: I don't want my sudden barage of questions to seem like an attack, btw, this is actually a really interesting argument.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

No, he has it because it's the expected (even clichè) weapon for him to have.

OR because wielding a Flaming Weapon is a bad idea. What happens if something takes it off of you and hits YOU with it?! Then you're really in trouble. Not only are you being beat with your own weapon, but you're getting your butt handed to you with that weapon. Superman doesn't carry kryponite around for a reason.

 

[Particle_Man]

OR because wielding a Flaming Weapon is a bad idea. What happens if something takes it off of you and hits YOU with it?! Then you're really in trouble. Not only are you being beat with your own weapon, but you're getting your butt handed to you with that weapon. Superman doesn't carry kryponite around for a reason.

Superman had all kinds of kryptonite in his fortress of solitude, unless that has change recently.

And if I were a frost giant, and came across a flaming weapon, I would keep it around precisely because I wouldn't want anyone else to have it. If I give it away or sell it, it might one day be used against me. If I wield it in combat, who is going to take it from my strong, strong arms?

 

[green slime]

I don't think your argument is quite valid here. What a creature IS and what it chooses to use are to different things. Sure, elves have pointy ears in my campaign world too, but not every elf in my world carries a longbow! Some actually prefer other weapons.

I realize that elves don't have a "archer" subtype, whereas frostgiants do have the cold subtype. That doesn't mean that any their magic weapons they automatically has to be frost weapons, though.

??? But nobody has stated that every frost giant carries a frost weapon. Some may actually prefer other weapons.

 

[green slime]

Superman had all kinds of kryptonite in his fortress of solitude, unless that has change recently.

But he doesn't carry that stuff around in his pockets...

Similarly to how the fey may find the touch of cold iron distasteful, and thus the majority may avoid wielding it, I think the frost giants would find the flickering flames of a flaming weapon disturbing.

 

[Omand]

Hello,

OK, so this discussion is kind of hung up on the Frost Giant example.

I can understand the point being made that there are themes in what monsters in WotC products are statted with. This has never bothered me, as the tropes usually appear to be based upon mythology or an inherent logic (to my mind).

I think, however, that important points of comparison have been missed. The point was raised that fire and frost giants would have a hard time coming into conflict due to distance between them. This is not the case (as has already been point out). To use real world examples (for realism purposes), consider the following:

- Iceland. The entire island is a volcanic hotbed, but glaciers cover much of the land mass away from the coastal fringe, and snow blankets the landscape around bubbling volcanic hotsprings in the middle of winter.

- Mt. St. Helens (USA). Prior to the eruption in 1980 the peak was galciated, yet only a kilometre or so underground there was red-hot magma.

- Banff National Park (Canada). The Banff Hot Springs are world famous and caused by thermal vents rising up from magam pools/streams under the earth. The peaks of the mountains around Banff are generally snowcapped throughout the year (although with global warming this may change). Again, 5-10 kilometres distance, at most, separates fire and ice in the summer and even less in winter.

- Yellowstone National Park (USA). Again, a thermal hotbed that exists in the caldera of a dormant volcano. The hotsprings and geysers in the park are in relatively close proximity to large glaciers (although again global warming appears to be melting these).

So there are real-world equivalents to the frost/fire combination. With a little more research/thought/digging it would likely be possible to draw up more close combinations that can co-exist.

Does fire melt ice, sure it does, but the two can also exist close togther in relative stability. So frost giants using frost weapons again fire giant raiders is believable.

The proximity of enemies of an opposite type makes it necessary for many creatures to have the weapons they wield.

Of course, some choices were likely flavour based, so change the ones you want to.

Cheers

 

[green slime]

Gez specifically said "ice above, lava caves beneath". Lava, not occasional poison gas. And all I'm saying is that in MY campaign world ice and lava don't mix very well...

Except that there is molten rock flowing beneath all our feet, even in Norway. Does this prevent snow and ice from falling on Norway? Or is it just a question of depth, then?

You can have lava flow down one side of a mountain, with the otherside covered in snow/ice? You can have fierce cold winds constantly removing the heated air from an open lava flow? Then you can have ice within a few meters of an open lava flow. Volcanoes can and do exist in icy climates. This being the case, there are situations, present in the real world, where you have ice above and lava below.

That statement does not prevent rock, earth and stone from separating the two.

............................. (I, too, have found the "." button on the keyboard!)