D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[overgeeked]

Oooh, I thought I was going to be on board with the premise, but I'm not particularly interested in "it's a game!" as a defense for failed aesthetics. That's an orthogonal issue, concerning what you're trying to do with your game. If you have a specific fictional purpose in mind, that's just a constraint on your design that has to be accounted for.

Huh. So what did you think the premise was?

 

[Scribe]

I mean, it factually is a game.

Chess is a game.
MtG is a game.
D&D is a game.

All have rules, all have objectives.

 

[Reynard]

I mean, it factually is a game.

Chess is a game.
MtG is a game.
D&D is a game.

All have rules, all have objectives.

That is reductive as it related to the question at hand, which is essentially "to what degree is D&D a game" as opposed to something else (narrative tool, or whatever).

D&D is a game in the sense that it has rules that govern outcomes, but it is a novel game insofar as both the situations that ask to implement those rules and the nature of the outcomes are subject to the desires and judgment of the GM/referee.

 

[R_J_K75]

Even if the game is about sitting around with your friends, drinking some beers and eating some pretzels while killing some orcs…it’s still a game.

You forgot the smoking part of it...and the Cheetos, Mtn Dew and shooting the darkness. I understand and respect that we all have passion and expectations from this game, but it's just a game. Once I start liking or loving the game more than the people Im playing it with it's no longer worth it

 

[mamba]

D&D is a game. So why do people object to it being treated like a game?

I don't think anyone treats it as something else, they just have different preferences as to what kind of game it should be

 

[Scribe]

That is reductive as it related to the question at hand, which is essentially "to what degree is D&D a game" as opposed to something else (narrative tool, or whatever).

D&D is a game in the sense that it has rules that govern outcomes, but it is a novel game insofar as both the situations that ask to implement those rules and the nature of the outcomes are subject to the desires and judgment of the GM/referee.

I dont think its reductive it all. There are many types of games, and D&D is one of them. This is not belittling, or to demean or somehow make it 'less than' because it simply is a game.

Its not like we are working out world peace here.

 

[R_J_K75]

Its not like we are working out world peace here.

Wait, what, we're not?

 

[Scribe]

Wait, what, we're not?

Well maybe A world, but not this one that we have to engage with the majority of the time.

 

[Jack Daniel]

In my experience, players who want D&D to be something other than a game desperately want it to be art — and specifically storytelling or performance art. Games are low-class; art is high-class. It's a metanarrative born from pretentiousness.

 

[Blue]

My thoughts are there isn't a problem with D&D being a game. There are problems when the fact that it is a game causes rules that don't match other's priorities.

For instance, while there's a lot of alternate Initiative methods talk, there's zero "everyone should yell what they are doing at once, we don't need an order because everyone is really going at once". Everyone can accept that bit as game.

But when you get to rules that prioritize D&D working well as a game but are at odds with other priorities those around the table have. Simulation, realism, narrative as common ones. Ah, there's the rub.

Let me give an example. There's been a lot written about the length of the adventure day, providing sufficient challenges, and also maintainign the balance between the long rest recovery classes like casters, the at-will classes like rogue, and the short-rest recovery classes like monk. The choice given of matching up with rests and sleep is picking a solution that meets the narrative, but doesn't work well across all DMs and all tables in terms of Game. 13th Age, a d20 game, has the simple solution of "a full heal-up (long rest equivalent) every 4 encounters". From treating D&D like a game only, this is 100% a better solution when across all DMs and the varied adventures they run. But it's also a very rejected mechanic by lots of tables, as the negative to the narrative (and to some degree the simulation) is, for them, more than the positive of the net increase in how that works vs. the current.

Again, it's not a problem D&D is a game, and players will gladly accept that. The problem is when the play-as-game come into opposition of other aspects of play that the person weighs more heavily.