Why is dream a 5th-level spell?

[Nellisir]

Dream is a 5th-level spell. On the plus side, you can convey a message almost anywhere on a plane. On the down side, they have to be asleep (and you can't contact elves or anything else that doesn't sleep), you have to be helpless and in a trance, you can only contact one person per casting, and you can only give a message - no two-way conversation.

The more I think about it, the more I think it should be 1st, maybe 2nd level. Why is it 5th?

 

[Nifft]

Well, given that the damage you can inflict is roughly on par with cone of cold... wait, what? (I've just ignored dream and added interplanar message, 3rd level spell from Spell Compendium.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Arkhandus]

Dream is like Sending but one-way, and the message can be any length. That's why it's the same level as Sending; you can send more information with one casting, even though you have some limitations on when the recipient will get the info, and there's no return message.

It may deserve to be one level lower than Sending, certainly, but I think that's about it.

1st and 2nd level communication spells are very limited. 3rd level ones are probably also too low-level to deserve the unlimited range and unlimited message length of Dream.

 

[Nellisir]

Well, given that the damage you can inflict is roughly on par with cone of cold... wait, what? (I've just ignored dream and added interplanar message, 3rd level spell from Spell Compendium.)

Cheers, -- N

Dream doesn't do damage. Interplanar message looks similar, albeit with different restrictions. I could live with dream at 3rd level.

 

[Nifft]

Dream doesn't do damage.

(Thus the "wait, what?")

Interplanar message looks similar, albeit with different restrictions. I could live with dream at 3rd level.

Note that Clerics get sending as a 4th level spell. Given the difference in casting times (10 minutes vs. hours of sleep), I think a reduction in level is appropriate.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nail]

(Thus the "wait, what?")

Sarcasm never misinterpreted on the 'net.

Ever.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Sarcasm never misinterpreted on the 'net.

Ever.

Really? I would have thought otherwise...

Spoiler

: )

 

[irdeggman]

(Thus the "wait, what?")

Note that Clerics get sending as a 4th level spell. Given the difference in casting times (10 minutes vs. hours of sleep), I think a reduction in level is appropriate.

Cheers, -- N

Hours of sleep?

Casting time of Dream is 1 minute, duration is the time required for the messenger to enter the recipient's dream and deliver the message.

It does not state that it takes "hours". Speaking is usually an action that takes no time.

Dream can deliver a message of any length.

Sending takes 10 minutes to cast and the message can only be 25 words or less and since the subject can answer in like manner I beleive that means the answer is also limited to 25 words or less.

So since you think that based the difference in casting times 10 minutes versus hours of sleep Dream should be of lower level, then since that assumption is incorrect and the casting time is 1 minute versus 10 minutes wouldn't that actually make them about even then? Both are S/W 5. Dream has an unlimited range and Sending is limited to the same plane (well actually there is a base 5% filure chance with other modifications determined by the DM).

Personnally I think both spells are too high of level but using the rational you have stated makes the case work in the wrong way, IMO. They seem to be about equal in spell level to me.

 

[Nifft]

Hours of sleep?

This bit:

If the recipient is awake when the spell begins, the messenger can choose to wake up (ending the spell) or remain in the trance. The messenger can remain in the trance until the recipient goes to sleep, then enter the recipient’s dream and deliver the message as normal. A messenger that is disturbed during the trance comes awake, ending the spell.

Basically, if you don't know the target's sleeping habits, you could be in a trance for a while.

Which could be even less convenient than 10 minute casting time.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nellisir]

(Thus the "wait, what?")

That's what you get for making me reply during my lunch break. I thought you might be thinking of nightmare...which may or may not do damage, but does mess you up.