D&D General When to know a rule?

[James Gasik]

I would say that if players do want setting definition privileges, this should all be hammered out before play even begins. The DM is not a God, and is only mortal. They have an important job, of course, but there is no game without a DM and a group of players. And some DM's and players are bad fits for one another- it happens, it's unfortunate.

I've had to deal with players who did not appreciate my style of gaming, and I've had to play with DM's who I didn't appreciate all that much. And let me tell you, it sucks, but no D&D is really better than bad D&D. I've stuck out many a campaign hoping against hope that things would improve, and they often don't. That's more on me than the DM or the other players, lol.

I feel a compromise should be made in any campaign, but if you're not comfortable running for a group of players, or you feel they demand too much of you, don't run for them!

I once actually got offered the dream of being paid 100 bucks per session to run a game. And it was miserable, because the guy paying me had this attitude that because he was paying me, he should have a greater influence on how the game was run. Now maybe if he'd been up front about this, things would have been different, but any time something came up he didn't care for, he would say something like "this isn't the game I'm paying for". He tried to overrule me at the table once, and I quit on the spot. And believe me, I could have used the money, but running the game had become a job. And I already had a naughty word job, thank you very much, where I wasn't appreciated. So I didn't need this one too.

So if your players don't appreciate you, or they seem to want to take a mile when you offer an inch, get out.

And if your DM is running the game in a way you don't think is fun, and you don't like a lot of custom spells or homebrew content, or you don't like to be surprised by things you had no way of even knowing existed on a regular basis, why are you there? Go, shoo, if you know the rules so well, make your own game!

But I think most groups can compromise, if both sides are willing to do so.

 

[TiQuinn]

What?

Like that's not broken at all.

DM: "What do you do next?"
Player: "I cast the WeWinEverything spell that I created last week, and with the world forever saved we retire into the sunset."

facepalm

He’s not wrong, but that’s only because the DMG writers decided to handwave this portion rather than provide any kind of guidance. Of course, adding any spell to the game requires the DM to approve it.

 

[Hussar]

Are you saying a DM cannot use any of the alternate versions because the players are not immediately aware of them? As a DM I consider this part of my world-building which I intend to gradually reveal to the players through play and let them reap the reward of their characters gaining this knowledge. I'm struggling to see how this is not fun?

When would you reveal this? And, if a player asked to see the spell, would you show it to them? Or would you absolutely refuse to even acknowledge the existence of these changes until after the player had chosen to cast the spell?

 

[Hussar]

Let's say that you were this DM, would you allow your own players access to it? I am curious about how you would handle it compared to @bloodtide.

I already answered this. Of course I would.

If for no other reason than to have a couple more sets of eyes to test whether the spells I designed were actually written well. If I had a tome of five THOUSAND spells, I'd be singing it to the moon. Hell, I'd be selling that puppy.

But, then, apparently I don't have a mastery of English.

 

[Corinnguard]

Five Thousand spells to choose from would require an INT save from the players. "So many spells to choose from, so little time..."

 

[ezo]

so Wish then?

No, because WeWinEverything is only FIRST level.

 

[CandyLaser]

In general I have no objection to homebrew. I love homebrewing stuff for my campaigns when I GM. The last time I ran 5e was about a year ago, and as part of that I made a dozen or so homebrew magic items. As a player, I would be excited to get a homebrew item or learn a unique homebrew spell. In my experience on both sides of the table, though, I find homebrew much more exciting when it's tied to the context of a specific campaign. I would thus consider a lot of pre-existing homebrew to be a bit of a yellow flag, in that those ties probably wouldn't be present.

As an example of what I mean, in my Eberron game one of the players was interested in playing a snake person. We went back and forth during character creation and worked together to homebrew a shulassakar ancestry. In Eberron, the shulassakar are close kin to the yuan-ti, but dedicated to the couatl and the Silver Flame. A few other PCs had backstories tied to the Silver Flame, so we did a campaign focused on the Lords of Dust trying to free Bel Shalor from the Flame. One thing the players really enjoyed was when I gave each of the six players a unique couatl-themed item as a gift from a couatl patron; they all kept the items to the end of the campaign, and one crucial moment of the final battle involved two of them passing their relics (a rapier and a shield) back and forth to slay Bel Shalor's corporeal form so it could be re-bound. By the strict rules-as-written, this wasn't a legal play; the items required attunement, so they couldn't have used the items' powers freely. But in the moment it was obvious to me that it served the story much better if it did work, so I houseruled it on the spot.

 

[Lanefan]

Well, while there may not be a default time or cost to work with for spell creation, there are two other considerations. One, the spell creation guidelines (we know WotC breaks their own rules here, buffing damage and nerfing healing, but that's a whole other conversation) and of course, what the DM will allow. Just like any other option, what you have access to is decided before play begins, with the DM having a pretty strong say. Asking for a spell all your own is right up there (IMO) with asking "Hey can I play a Bloodhunter or a Gunslinger?".

So most likely, the only way you'd get a WeWinEverything spell is if your DM is asleep at the wheel, lol.

I'd pointed out that spell creation would require DM input as to time and cost; to which Hussar came back saying neither time nor cost is required, thus implying DM input isn't necessary. Which means, taking his words literally, there's no wheel for the DM to be asleep at: these new spells can just appear.

 

[Lanefan]

No, because WeWinEverything is only FIRST level.

First level? Hell, no - it's a cantrip!

 

[ezo]

First level? Hell, no - it's a cantrip!

Well, I didn't want it to be THAT easy...