What Is A Superhero?

[roger semerad]

I'll start off by saying, all genres are poorly defined, and any definition starts to break down the more you test it. Trying to define a genre is an intellectual exercise for the fun of it, because clearly there are some common similarities between works in a genre. Few are going to agree, and that's fine. For instance, I see sci-fi and fantasy as the same genre. One deals with the impossible and doesn't try to explain it, the other deals with the improbable and does try to explain it. Both are speculative fiction that uses things and concepts that don't exist in our world; either for allegory or just to add excitement. There, argue about that. Anyway, here's my definition of the super-hero genre.

Super-heroic fiction is fiction that contains super-heroes. Super-heroes are either:

#1 - Super-heroes are protagonists that appeared first, or more often, in comic books that are commonly agreed to be super-hero comics.

or

#2 - Super-heroes are exceptional ( beyond human abilities) protagonists that fight individual antagonists, or small groups of antagonists. These antagonists are always depicted as the root of great problems in the world, and the defeat of them will directly make the world better. Super-heroes do not fight systemic problems.

That's still pretty broad, but that's how some genres are. I personally agree more with #2. I see Super-heroes as idealized fiction with personified problems. You can have a wide range of styles, but it always boils down to making the world better by hitting the bad guy in the face. Yes, this means that I do see the common fantasy adventuring party as a super-hero group. It's the same style of story.

The Punisher is a super-hero if you agree with #1, Robocop is one if you agree with #2.

 

[kigmatzomat]

IMO the "superhero genre" involves individuals who have unique, usually personal, special abilities beyond the norm for the setting and they use those powers to protect "normals" from evil people with special abilities beyond the norm.

I.e. Fifth Element is an action movie not a superhero movie, being Diehard in the future. None of the humans are "super" though they have future tech and Corbin/McClain take damage and could be killed. Leelu might be a superhero if she is unique, but she appears to be a Mondochiwan soldier, making her at most the Corbin Dallas of the Mondochiwans.

Star Wars is a sci fi movie, not super hero, because Jedi are an order where numerous people can acquire that power, but the Order has been suppressed so only a few Jedi remain. It's the Three Musketeers in space with laser swords.

Unbreakable is a superhero genre origin movie movie because David Dunn is capable of extreme physical acts, is semi-invulnerable and has some psychic senses.

Robocop is also a superhero movie because he is a prototype, further more he fights the programming to behave as a hero. In the sequel he is proven to be unique because everyone else who is 'borged commits suicide, except for a drug-addict criminal, resulting in robocop vs robocop2.

Punisher is an antihero in a superhero genre. Harley Quinn is either a villain, anti-hero or hero, depending on which incarnation. In no cases are they ever really "super", as at most they have olympian-levels of physical ability combined with various mental psychosis on top of normal human intelligence.

The Joker is a supervillain despite having no special physical ability, as he seems to have some kind of superhuman ability to acquire resources, discover ways to control people, collect minions, even being able to mentally break a criminal psychologist.

Lex Luthor is a super villain because he is a genius weapons designer, essentially evil Tony Stark/evil Batman, making superman-class devices, while having some of Joker's ability to collect loyal minions.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

None of the humans are "super" though

Leeloo is.

The Joker is a supervillain despite having no special physical ability, as he seems to have some kind of superhuman ability

In the same way that John McClane has some kind of superhuman ability to survive damage that would kill a normal person many times over.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Leeloo is.

She's not human, she's a Mondochiwan soldier. We don't know how many Mondochiwans there were on the ship so we don't know if she is unique but we know Mondochiwans exist to communicate with the Earth Government, so she is not The Last of Her Kind.

She only "survived" the attack by Mangalors in the form of some cells in her left hand. If she wasn't a species with 5 helixes in their DNA, she probably would have been a mental infant instead of having her mind encoded in her DNA.

I rank her as "Mondochiwan equivalent to Corbin Dallas" at best.

 

[Deset Gled]

#2 - Super-heroes are exceptional ( beyond human abilities) protagonists that fight individual antagonists, or small groups of antagonists. These antagonists are always depicted as the root of great problems in the world, and the defeat of them will directly make the world better. Super-heroes do not fight systemic problems.

I would have to disagree with the bolded party here.

First, there are plenty of "small scale" antagonists. Supers often fight basic thieves or stop petty crimes like muggings. Especially in the golden age, local mobsters or simple murder were common plots. These are not the root of great problems.

OTOH, supers also occasionally fight systemic problems. Robocop is an example of this, fighting against corruption. The prime example, though, is probably the time Superman took on the real world KKK.

 

[Ryujin]

I would have to disagree with the bolded party here.

First, there are plenty of "small scale" antagonists. Supers often fight basic thieves or stop petty crimes like muggings. Especially in the golden age, local mobsters or simple murder were common plots. These are not the root of great problems.

OTOH, supers also occasionally fight systemic problems. Robocop is an example of this, fighting against corruption. The prime example, though, is probably the time Superman took on the real world KKK.

Add to that:

Captain America and Batman in WWII.

Spider-Man and drugs.

Iron Man and Green Arrow vs. alcoholism.

Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man vs. racism.

... and so much more.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

She's not human

Neither is Superman.

 

[MarkB]

She's not human, she's a Mondochiwan soldier. We don't know how many Mondochiwans there were on the ship so we don't know if she is unique but we know Mondochiwans exist to communicate with the Earth Government, so she is not The Last of Her Kind.

She only "survived" the attack by Mangalors in the form of some cells in her left hand. If she wasn't a species with 5 helixes in their DNA, she probably would have been a mental infant instead of having her mind encoded in her DNA.

I rank her as "Mondochiwan equivalent to Corbin Dallas" at best.

No, she's literally the Fifth Element, the unique and special being destined to defeat the great evil once every 5,000 years. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she's a Mondochiwan soldier.

 

[kigmatzomat]

In the same way that John McClane has some kind of superhuman ability to survive damage that would kill a normal person many times over.

All Action Movies give the protagonist a degree of plot armor. An Action Hero is a Jonah, irrationally surviving irrational dangers.

To me the main difference between Super Hero and Action Movie hero is that everyone agrees the Action Movie hero got lucky and by all rights should be dead several times over. Meanwhile superheroes shake the flattened bullets out of their spandex and go home, reserving celebratory schwarma for alien invasions.

The Last Action Hero movie had a degree of internal deconstruction, where Schwarzenegger's character explains some of the stupid things he does are calculated risks (head on crash between car with modern airbags vs one without) but that he is playing the odds and will eventually lose. And even if he lives, people around him die, which is why he had no family or friends.

Fast and the Furious started as Action Movie and kept upping the ante until they became a Super Hero movie where everyone derives super powers while touching a vehicle, so that smoking car tires can prevent the vehicle from being lifted off the road.

In the beginning it was "how did we live" and turned into "too bad for you I still have my car"

 

[Ryujin]

No, she's literally the Fifth Element, the unique and special being destined to defeat the great evil once every 5,000 years. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that she's a Mondochiwan soldier.

Especially since, apart from having been in the same type of armour, we don't even know if she looks anything like other Mondochiwan. She might have been specifically engineered to look and act Human.