What is a "Narrative Mechanic"?

[hawkeyefan]

What I find weird in this (and many previous) discussions about narrative games and narrative mechanics is that people who seem to like games where such mechanics are prevalent, nevertheless often try to deny that there is anything that differentiates those mechanics. I don't get it. Like I recently made a Blades in the Dark character, and have tried to familiarise myself with that game and I hopefully soon get to play it. That game certainly has a bunch of narrative mechanics, most prominently flashbacks and quantum gear. And that's fine!

But I don't get people who insist that narrative games play differently yet when we are trying to label mechanics as narrative they fight against it and insist that there is no difference. Like what?

Maybe “narrative mechanics” is a mushy term?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Maybe “narrative mechanics” is a mushy term?

This is art, not science, everything is a bit mushy.

 

[pemerton]

What I find weird in this (and many previous) discussions about narrative games and narrative mechanics is that people who seem to like games where such mechanics are prevalent, nevertheless often try to deny that there is anything that differentiates those mechanics. I don't get it. Like I recently made a Blades in the Dark character, and have tried to familiarise myself with that game and I hopefully soon get to play it. That game certainly has a bunch of narrative mechanics, most prominently flashbacks and quantum gear. And that's fine!

But I don't get people who insist that narrative games play differently yet when we are trying to label mechanics as narrative they fight against it and insist that there is no difference. Like what?

Maybe “narrative mechanics” is a mushy term?

On top of that, the key difference between (say) playing AD&D 2nd ed in a fairly conventional fashion, and playing Apocalypse World, sits on the GM side.

Yes, the player-side design of AW is also different, in that the basic moves are deliberately chosen to channel the crunch and climaxes of play in a particular direction. But the actual play of them is not significantly different: when you declare an action for our PC that triggers a player-side move, you make the roll, add your bonus and see what happens. Again, it is on the GM side that the adjudication of the move results is different.

 

[Aldarc]

This is art, not science, everything is a bit mushy.

I think that we are dealing with neither art nor science but rather game.

 

[aramis erak]

I am not sure how spending a Fate point to create something in the environment is narrative, while "Create an Advantage" is not. Indeed, I think the former was dropped largely because the latter ate its lunch. Both are ways for the player to create a new truth in the narrative. The latter may be more diegetic than the former, but the results are otherwise similar.

DOing so based upon an aspect isn't. Doing so to find, say, a fire extinguisher in the middle of a swamp without a pre-extant story reason is.
Keep in mind that for me, I define "Narrative Mechanic" as one affecting the story state without prior basis in the story state...
That same mechanic, BTW, exists in FFG SW, too.

The fate point has no existence in the story state, only the mechanical one. It's not a narrative mechanic much of the time, only when it's used to directly create elements in the fiction (be they aspects, items, or whatnot, (and remembering that Fred Hicks has at one point stated (paraphrased): Everything is either a character or an aspect,) that aren't justified by elements already in the fiction.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think that we are dealing with neither art nor science but rather game.

Neither art nor science need to be fun... or fair... let alone balanced....

...damn, no wonder game design is so hard!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, the payoff is clearly "doin' it right" and smugly feeling smarter than a famous author, via the process of going through a fantasy story and, free of author force, sense of drama, or the like, viciously subverting its tropes for maximum advantage & efficiency.

And getting eaten by Nazgûl mounts and effectively handing the ring to Sauron, of course.

 

[Umbran]

Keep in mind that for me, I define "Narrative Mechanic" as one affecting the story state without prior basis in the story state...
That same mechanic, BTW, exists in FFG SW, too.

Unless you are specific about what "affecting the story state" is, that would seem to equate to the same "all adiegetic mechanics are narrative" which I don't find to be useful.

 

[Aldarc]

And getting eaten by Nazgûl mounts and effectively handing the ring to Sauron, of course.

This feels very "my dad could beat up your dad" levels of discussion.

 

[pemerton]

This feels very "my dad could beat up your dad" levels of discussion.

Middle Earth does have a lot of very puissant dads!