D&D 5E What Don't You Like About Dungeons?

[iserith]

I have some terrible news about who made the dungeon...

You may be conflating "plot" and "story" here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You may be conflating "plot" and "story" here.

but still... plots can be open ended or linear just like a dungeon

 

[Digdude]

If not Dungeons, what? Do people really want to roleplay nowadays? Being a Barista? How long before the outdoors becomes stale? Oh no, not another ambush while camped at night. I really am curious how anyone could avoid not having dungeons as your connector points in between the other pillars. I try as DM to fill my dungeons with some type of purpose, but then fill them with mystery, clues, constant changing elemental conditions. Wind blows your torches out, areas of no magic or perpetual darkness, weird puzzle traps with pieces strewn all over, etc... You have to keep it fresh, or any setting will go stale.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If not Dungeons, what?

castles wizard schools open worlds spell jammers boats there are lots of options

Do people really want to roleplay nowadays? Being a Barista?

I don't know if Barista is right but back in 3.5 we turned a game into a buisness game where we opened bars

How long before the outdoors becomes stale? Oh no, not another ambush while camped at night.

that is boreing... you know whats better. Hearing about trouble, being able to decided what you want to do about it and rp the answer.

I really am curious how anyone could avoid not having dungeons as your connector points in between the other pillars.

I have run whole campagins without them. I have played whole campagins without them...

I have one drawn up for my SJ game, but we may never get to it... the PCs have mostly been smuggling things and finding out things and had 2 ship to ship combats

You have to keep it fresh, or any setting will go stale.

that is equally true of in dungeon or no dungoens

 

[iserith]

but still... plots can be open ended or linear just like a dungeon

A plot in the context of my post is a predetermined sequence of events the players are expected to follow. The story is everything that happens as the PCs follow that plot. Same as the story is whatever the PCs do in the dungeon. The difference is that, unless the dungeon is linear, they have more freedom to pursue it however they want. Most plot-based games in my experience don't really allow for this. In some sandbox games, you can abandon the plot and maybe there's some kind of consequence, but for many DMs, that plot is all the content they created (often true of published adventures too), so you'll likely be spending the rest of the session interviewing quirky, cagey NPCs in taverns or shopping.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

A plot in the context of my post is a predetermined sequence of events the players are expected to follow.

I mean by that it could be a 5 room dungeon that each room just leads to the next.

The story is everything that happens as the PCs follow that plot. Same as the story is whatever the PCs do in the dungeon. The difference is that, unless the dungeon is linear, they have more freedom to pursue it however they want.

except that is just it a plot can be linear or not just like a dungeon.

I can make a 35 room dungeon that only has 4 choice points but really you need to hit at least 28 of the rooms far easier then I can make a social series of events happen no matter what.

Most plot-based games in my experience don't really allow for this.

oppisit here, most plot run games are all about choice and consequence

In some sandbox games, you can abandon the plot and maybe there's some kind of consequence, but for many DMs, that plot is all the content they created (often true of published adventures too), so you'll likely be spending the rest of the session interviewing quirky, cagey NPCs in taverns or shopping.

again equally true of dungeons... in fact isn't the old joke "what if we don't go it?" and the DM saying something like "all the roads flooded, you can't go anwhere but the dungeon I preped"

 

[Burnside]

Well put. I have the same sense as a player when playing either campaign. With a dungeon, I'm in charge and "the story" is whatever my party does. With a plot, I feel like I'm playing a guessing game of what I'm supposed to do to get to the next part of the DM's story and I don't like it as much.

This 100%, although I also appreciate a DM who is willing to roll with something a character wants to do during a session that the DM hasn't specifically prepped - which can mean the DM leaving the "driver's seat", albeit in a different way than a site-based adventure might allow.

 

[Bill Zebub]

When is this dungeon going to end? It’s a repetitive slog of searching fighting and going left.

Sounds like NASCAR.

 

[Imaculata]

Mazes. I hate it when a dungeon is a maze.

Mazes are fun in real life and sometimes in videogames. But they don't translate well to a tabletop RPG in my experience.

 

[iserith]

I mean by that it could be a 5 room dungeon that each room just leads to the next.

except that is just it a plot can be linear or not just like a dungeon.

I can make a 35 room dungeon that only has 4 choice points but really you need to hit at least 28 of the rooms far easier then I can make a social series of events happen no matter what.

oppisit here, most plot run games are all about choice and consequence

again equally true of dungeons... in fact isn't the old joke "what if we don't go it?" and the DM saying something like "all the roads flooded, you can't go anwhere but the dungeon I preped"

The lesson here is don't prepare linear plots and dungeons, or do so but get the players' buy-in on following it so you're not railroading. It doesn't change my point though that when I'm playing a non-linear dungeon, it feels to me a heckuvalot better than playing someone's plot. I get to do what I want rather than trying to figure out what the next plot point is so I can get to it.