I don't advocate for removing social stats as I'm firmly in the camp that holds your stats should inform your roleplay. But I do advocate for removal of social skill rules.
Why? Because roleplaying social interactions are the one aspect of the game that doesn't need to be abstracted by the rules or game system: we can do these interactions in real life at the table.
Pretty much everything else does require abstraction, because we can't functionally do those things in real life at the table; and those abstractions use skills, stats etc.
I don't agree and the logic of the argument against doing it is unassailable.
What about people who don't, aren't comfortable with it, or want to play a character better at it than them.
You don't make the barbarian 'wrassle the DM to prove they can fight.
It's really as simple and logical as that.
People can come at over and over again, and they just bounce off because there's absolutely no rational or logical argument for the position which isn't exclusionary and ableist, and dare I say worse than that - fundamentally at odds with the notion of playing a character who has skills you don't possess.
The only time it would even arguably make sense if you were playing yourself, and the sole reason you weren't playing out fights etc. was to avoid injury. But that wouldn't be a roleplaying game in any normal sense of the term.
Player skill affects all areas of the game.
You're proving the point we're making by quite correctly pointing this out.
It does.
So why attempt to one particular part of the game solely reliant on player skill? To make that and the DM's bias literally the only factors?
Why do that for one part of the game and not another? It's antithetical to the notion of playing a character who isn't you, and possesses abilities, personality traits, memories and so on that are not yours.
Roleplaying
can be quite helpful for a lot of people. One trick I used when I was younger was just pretending that I was one of my characters. Of course "a lot of people" isn't the same as everyone.
Quite right with "not the same as everyone". For example, 34 years of RPGs have never improved my ADHD or really improved my ability to cope with ADHD, god it might have made it worse in some ways. However, they have built on skills trained by the fancy schools I went to, and made me a better speaker and more able to command a room - notably being a player never did that at all, but being a DM and having to manage a fractious group did, but there are others - who also DM'd - I know who that hasn't happened for (and who some of the groups I've dealt with would just stress out and upset). You can't try and force it, I guess is the thing.
For me, if someone has a great idea, as a DM in D&D (and a lot of other games where it makes sense), you give Advantage or a similar condition, or you allow an auto-success if it's really that fitting.
(Talking of weird benefits - RPGs did make me a lot better at all kinds of math and basic logic! One of my friends credits them with him becoming an extremely successful lawyer, but I am not sure if that's cause or effect, because I know several people who play RPGs who are lawyers or have law degrees, and I don't think RPGs made all of them do it!)
As someone with social anxiety and ADHD I can say that yes, actually having to roleplay instead of just throwing dice to cover social interactions has helped me immensely.
Assuming the same happens for everyone, though (if one does, I'm not asserting you are), would be ignorant.
As someone else with extreme ADHD, there has been absolutely no improvement from any amount of RPGs. None. Whereas with medication? Instant and significant improvement. I don't have social anxiety, but I've played with people who did, and I don't think forcing them to RP more aggressively on the basis of my totally unqualified opinion would be at all. I'm glad you were helped by it, but it's literally unsafe, like actually unsafe in the real meaning of the word unsafe, to assume others would always similarly benefit.
I prefer and encourage people to RP the social interactions although I will never require it. The one thing to remember is to be patient but still give nudges if it feels like the player just doesn't know what to say next. It's also okay for the player to just not be ready or currently ready to go there.
Exactly. As hackneyed as the term is - you create a safe space, and an encouraging environment. You don't shove someone out on stage and say do it or your character won't!
