D&D General What Actually Is Copyright Protected In The SRD?

[Paul Farquhar]

If OGL goes away it's ability score system, skill system, feats and class structure are from 3.0.

It's the idea that WotC can make the OGL "go away", no matter how much they might want it to, that would never stand up to legal test. The most they can do is try and pressure future publications to use the new licence.

And I'm pretty sure WotC has no interest in trying to pursue anything retroactively in any case. Horses that are already out of the barn when the door is closed are free for anyone to use.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This makes me assume that Bioware had a licence from [] WotC.

One might think that, but I haven't seen any evidence that this is the case (and I have looked). My suspicion is that early in development KotOR was going to be a licenced Star Wars D20 game, but this fell through for reasons unknown.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's the idea that WotC can make the OGL "go away", no matter how much they might want it to, that would never stand up to legal test. The most they can do is try and pressure future publications to use the new licence.

And I'm pretty sure WotC has no interest in trying to pursue anything retroactively in any case. Horses that are already out of the barn when the door is closed are free for anyone to use.

Well it's what the lawyers are saying it's not impossible they can make it go away.

Even if they can't until it's decided in court Kickstarter and One bookshelf will likely go along with whatever WotC is claiming.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well it's what the lawyers are saying it's not impossible they can make it go away.

There are no certainties in the law. Go not to the lawyers for council, for they will say both no and yes.

But as pointed out the idea that you can change the rules than try and apply them retroactively to something that was made in good faith under different rules is a can of worms no sane judge or corporation would want opened.

Even if they can't until it's decided in court Kickstarter and One bookshelf will likely go along with whatever WotC is claiming.

Uncertainty is always a threat, even when the chance that the sky is actually falling is minimal. It's really in WotC's ballpark to decide if it's in its interest to prop up these things.

What WotC can do is try and limit the ability to market something based on a connection to D&D. Which obviously does not apply to something like KotOR.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are no certainties in the law. Go not to the lawyers for council, for they will say both no and yes.

But as pointed out the idea that you can change the rules than try and apply them retroactively to something that was made in good faith under different rules is a can of worms no sane judge or corporation would want opened.

Uncertainty is always a threat, even when the chance that the sky is actually falling is minimal. It's really in WotC's ballpark to decide if it's in its interest to prop up these things.

What WotC can do is try and limit the ability to market something based on a connection to D&D. Which obviously does not apply to something like KotOR.

Well I don't think it matters for KotoR since it was made under the old paradigm an thus can be resold even if WotC is successful.

Heh was playing my original copy on disk not long ago then bought the digital version for the missing station and to play it with wife who was using the Switch. And I own it on steam bought that game 4 times.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well I don't think it matters for KotoR since it was made under the old paradigm an thus can be resold even if WotC is successful.

Indeed. And that establishes a precedent that a great many D&D rules are in the public domain. And once something enters the public domain it is very very difficult to reverse that.

 

[Zardnaar]

Indeed. And that establishes a precedent that a great many D&D rules are in the public domain. And once something enters the public domain it is very very difficult to reverse that.

Not really public domain won't apply yet. The license expired is very different.

I wouldn't be throwing around absolutes basically going by what lawyers are saying.

Even if WotC doesn't get to big stick about it they can still cut you off from online stuff, browbeat things like Kickstarter and if 6E isn't OGL they can cut you off from that.

Beyond that it's a lawyer thing and it could conceivably go WotC way apparently.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not really public domain won't apply yet. The license expired is very different.

I wouldn't be throwing around absolutes basically going by what lawyers are saying.

Even if WotC doesn't get to big stick about it they can still cut you off from online stuff, browbeat things like Kickstarter and if 6E isn't OGL they can cut you off from that.

Beyond that it's a lawyer thing and it could conceivably go WotC way apparently.

An investment engine like Kickstarter runs on confidence. Anything that undermines that is a threat. And WotC can certainly stop you from marketing something as "OneD&D compatible", even obliquely, if they choose to do so. The issue is, would they want to? It's the big threats they are worried about, what's open to question is how much they want to protect little guys who might get caught in the crossfire.

But the original question was about game mechanics, and it's pretty clear they are all fair game, so long as you don't actually mention D&D (even indirectly).

 

[Zardnaar]

An investment engine like Kickstarter runs on confidence. Anything that undermines that is a threat. And WotC can certainly stop you from marketing something as "OneD&D compatible", even obliquely, if they choose to do so. The issue is, would they want to? It's the big threats they are worried about, what's open to question is how much they want to protect little guys who might get caught in the crossfire.

But the original question was about game mechanics, and it's pretty clear they are all fair game, so long as you don't actually mention D&D (even indirectly).

Nope what the lawyers are saying is you can't copyright basic mechanics eg rolling dice or shuffling cards.

You can copyright expressions of those mechanics. I can make a tcg tomorrow but can't clone MtG.

So any OGL game with elements of D&D in it is not safevif WotC sends out cease and desists.

Pathfinder 2 for example uses microfeats. No OGL well microfeats are in 3.0 which is now closed.

Guess what Pathfinder 2 is now potentially violating WotC trademarks.

How many people can fight WotC in court for 2-3 years, win and not go bankrupt?

The OGL can't be revoked and game mechanics can't be copyrighted are not exactly true from a legal PoV. WotC has a valid case apparently they could conceivably win (and even if they can't well they have more money).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You can copyright expressions of those mechanics.

This is far from clear. The DaVinci Editrice S.R.L. v. ZiKo Games, LLC ruling suggests the only things copyrightable are art, logos and narratives. If you made an exact copy of MtG with different art the outcome would be far from certain.

So any OGL game with elements of D&D

Is perfectly safe, since you could simply point to KotOR as the source.

athfinder 2 for example uses microfeats. No OGL well microfeats are in 3.0 which is now closed.

Guess what Pathfinder 2 is now potentially violating WotC trademarks.

And potentially, visa versa. Which is what WotC want to protect themselves from.

How many people can fight WotC in court for 2-3 years, win and not go bankrupt?

The big companies that WotC care about. They don't care what little guys do. It doesn't matter if WotC win, they have still made a net loss fighting the case. The only way to make money off law suits is if you are a little guy and successfully sue (or force an out of court settlement on) a big guy.

conceivably

There is a big difference between "conceivably" and "likely". And even if they did win, it would still be money down the toilet.