We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Morrus]

Is anyone surprised how the SJW wants to destroy anything good from the past, including fictional heroes.

Please tell me that "SJW" doesn't stand for "Social Justice Warrior" in this sentence.

 

[reelo]

Please tell me that "SJW" doesn't stand for "Social Justice Warrior" in this sentence.

It probably does.

Let me just add that I thoroughly enjoyed the film. My generation (I was born in 1980) had their trilogy. Two, even. It's time for our children to have theirs. My 7yo loves Kylo Ren, Poe, Finn and Rey. With Han dead, Luke a ghost, and Leia certainly absent from the next installment, the slate is clean for new adventures.
I've love Star Wars with all my heart since I was 10 or so, but I'm not angry nor salty about TLJ.

"Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."

Sent from my Nexus 6P using EN World mobile app

 

[pukunui]

I get the sense there’s more info in books and comics and stuff? Is Kylo now ruling the galaxy? Nobody’s fighting the FO now, right? I guess I just want more information about the First Order!

Yeah. From what I've been able to glean, Snoke didn't have a permanent base. He just roamed around on that giant stealth bomber. He's an alien from the Unknown Regions that took over the remnants of the Empire that fled there after the Battle of Jakku. There are suggestions that Starkiller Base was Ilum, but Lucasfilm has provided no proof yet. I am hoping that they will reveal Snoke's backstory at some stage, whether it be in a novel or some other book or whatever.

I would also like to know what happened to the Knights of Ren. Snoke refers to them in The Force Awakens, but they don't appear in The Last Jedi. It is unclear if Ben founded the knights or if he just joined their ranks and rose to be their leader.

The new movies have deconstructed and destroyed the heroes of the original trilogy.

Yes. As much as I enjoy the new films for what they are, this aspect of the stories bothers me as well. The state of the galaxy in the new trilogy renders everything everyone did in the original trilogy (and in Rogue One) more or less pointless. It's almost as bad as the Legacy Era from the EU.

Either Rey's parents are much more than just baby-selling junk scavengers, or there is no legacy of the Skywalker lineage.

Ben Solo is the Skywalkers' legacy, and it seems to me that if he was lying to Rey about her parents, then so was the dark side itself, because when she asked to see her parents in the cave, it just showed her herself.

I think I would have preferred the new trilogy to stand more on its own merits. All the torch-passing that goes on, especially in the Last Jedi, just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.


EDIT: Also, when Luke tells Rey that he hid in a remote corner of the galaxy so he could die, it blows a gaping hole in the plot of TFA: if Luke didn't want to be found, why the hell is there a map leading to his location?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Is anyone surprised how the SJW wants to destroy anything good from the past, including fictional heroes.

They want the heroes to give in to evil, give in to their selfish side, and not care about others. To give up the fight. Let evil win.

This is the message I got from these last two star wars episode movies.

So I would not be surprised at all if episode IX has the evil empire/first order (new world order) take out the resistance once and for all and have whatever secret weapons Emperor Palatine had with the unknown region do the same with the republic.


Tis a shame, as I expected more from Disney.

Amazing. Every single thing you just said was wrong.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah. From what I've been able to glean, Snoke didn't have a permanent base. He just roamed around on that giant stealth bomber. He's an alien from the Unknown Regions that took over the remnants of the Empire that fled there after the Battle of Jakku. There are suggestions that Starkiller Base was Ilum, but Lucasfilm has provided no proof yet. I am hoping that they will reveal Snoke's backstory at some stage, whether it be in a novel or some other book or whatever.

So he was a local warlord. The stakes are just... so much lower. The First Order isn't anything like the threat of the Empire - it's more like it's a well-trained biker gang. And they're fighting the A-Team. And the world at large doesn't really notice, except that one atrocity they managed to commit.

EDIT: Also, when Luke tells Rey that he hid in a remote corner of the galaxy so he could die, it blows a gaping hole in the plot of TFA: if Luke didn't want to be found, why the hell is there a map leading to his location?

That map was ridiculous even then. All you need is the coordinates. You either know them or you don't; it's a binary thing. A map doesn't help.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Other thoughts:

- If you can take out a fleet of Star Destroyers by just flying a ship at light speed into them, why isn't that the standard tactic?

Because it sacrifices a ship, which are so expensive and take so long to build that the Resistence is still relying mostly on the ships from the Rebellion, and it requires at least one person to die in the process.

It also may just be difficult to pull off, without instead to just jumping past the other ships.

- Awesome to see Yoda!

I was worried i wouldn't like it, when I saw his head, but it was great.

- Jedi are definitely getting more powerful as the films go on!

Not sure I agree. I don't think any of them did anything that was more powerful than what we saw in the prequels. Maybe in TFA with making the blaster bolt freeze in the air? Nothing Snoke did was more than just a strong mastery of "making things float".

- Snoke was better than expected. No explanation who he is. Did NOT expect to see him go out like that.

He was one of my favorite parts. He straight up dunked on himself with Kylo Ren, in the most "arrogant Dark Sider" way possible.

- Super space flying Leia looked and felt silly to me.

I mean, she's just pulling objects in space toward her with the force. It was cool to see her use the force, since we've known since the OT that she "has it", and it was a really simple usage. Her not dying in space fits with things we saw Jedi do in the Clone Wars, but also the whole things fits within the confines of basic physics+using theforce to move objects. If she'd flown in spite of gravity, that would have been lame.

- Casino planet sequences felt very prequel-ish to me.

Same, though I suspect that you're not as happy about that as I was. It's all one universe, there definitely should be things that remind a viewer of the world painted by the prequels. [/quote]
- Luke was seriously awesome at the end. At first I thought he was already dead and was there as a force ghost.
- So the main three are all out of the series now. That feels a bit sad. 3PO and R2 got about a minute's screen time between them.
- I love Star Destroyers and I love Imperial Architecture.

I rank it above Force Awakens, below Empire and ANH, above RotJ. I think. Not sure yet![/QUOTE]

I'll never understand why people rank Empire above Jedi, but otherwise I agree.

I'll add, that the three new main characters, and Rose, were all excellent, IMO. Even Kylo Ren was exactly what I hoped he'd be.

I loved how badly Snoke got himself killed. And the unanswered questions were great. Who is he, what is he, how is he even alive, why is he so obsessed with the Skywalkers? I kinda hope that some of those never get answered. I don't like my movies to wrap everything up in a satisfying package.

And the fact that Ren turned against Snoke, but not from the Dark Side, was great.

My only real complaint was the apparent nods to the idea of the Light and Dark both being required for balance, rather than balance being a matter of the Dark Side being defeated. If they double down on that in the next one, it's gonna seriously hamper my enthusiasm for the franchise.

 

[Morrus]

Because it sacrifices a ship, which are so expensive and take so long to build that the Resistence is still relying mostly on the ships from the Rebellion, and it requires at least one person to die in the process.

One ship on autopilot vs. a fleet of star destroyers. Not doing that all the time is simple incompetence.

I mean, star destroyers are historically easy to kill, but even so.

I mean, she's just pulling objects in space toward her with the force. It was cool to see her use the force, since we've known since the OT that she "has it", and it was a really simple usage. Her not dying in space fits with things we saw Jedi do in the Clone Wars, but also the whole things fits within the confines of basic physics+using theforce to move objects. If she'd flown in spite of gravity, that would have been lame.

And yet it still looked stupid.

I'll add, that the three new main characters, and Rose, were all excellent, IMO. Even Kylo Ren was exactly what I hoped he'd be.

Absolutely. Rey, Finn, Poe, Snoke, Kylo, Rey. All excellent.

I loved how badly Snoke got himself killed. And the unanswered questions were great. Who is he, what is he, how is he even alive, why is he so obsessed with the Skywalkers? I kinda hope that some of those never get answered. I don't like my movies to wrap everything up in a satisfying package.

I'm also happy with not everything being answered. I prefer the Clone Wars before they showed them to me.

My only real complaint was the apparent nods to the idea of the Light and Dark both being required for balance, rather than balance being a matter of the Dark Side being defeated. If they double down on that in the next one, it's gonna seriously hamper my enthusiasm for the franchise.

It's all just mumbo-jumbo. When it comes down to it, people do good things or bad things. Balance isn't a thing.

 

[Mercurius]

I haven't seen the film yet but from everything I've read, it just re-affirms my feeling that the new trilogy is nothing more or less than decent quality fan faction. TFA was a fun movie, but it lacked the originality and heart of the original trilogy, and even the scifi creativity of the sequel trilogy. It was like one of those reunion sitcoms where they get the gang back together again, but it doesn't feel the same. Or like watching 72-year old Mick Jagger sing "I Can't Get No Satisfaction," when we all realize the problem is that he's had far too much satisfaction.

Sort of like Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One ship on autopilot vs. a fleet of star destroyers. Not doing that all the time is simple incompetence.

I mean, star destroyers are historically easy to kill, but even so.

Do we know that it can be done on autopilot? Star Wars doesn't even seem to necessarily have autopilot, and if it does, it's not good enough to obviate the need of a real pilot. Hell, the world doesn't make any sense when we start thinking about AI, because why do they even need pilots?

But when you have limited ships, you cannot use that tactic as a normal course of action. And again, it didn't look like she was just punching a couple buttons that then waiting for the end. She looked pretty busy, and everyone seemed surprised, including her allies. The implication seemed, to me, to be that what she was doing took both skill and timing, and knowledge of astrogation.

And yet it still looked stupid.

I couldn't possibly disagree more. It was fantastic, and perfect, IMO. I would have been fine with that being her end, though, floating in space, bathed in moonlight. ONly thing missing from Carry Fishers' wishes for her own death would be that she wasn't being strangled by her own bra. (seriously, she was the best human)

Absolutely. Rey, Finn, Poe, Snoke, Kylo, Rey. All excellent.

And really, hasn't Star Wars always been about characters? The world never made sense, the plot was always kinda predictable and lame, but the characters have been awesome.

I'm also happy with not everything being answered. I prefer the Clone Wars before they showed them to me.

I will give the show credit for doing a better job of humanizing Anakin and showing his progression than the prequel movies did, to be fair.

It's all just mumbo-jumbo. When it comes down to it, people do good things or bad things. Balance isn't a thing.

Try telling that to annoying fans who insist that "grey jedi" are canon.

 

[epithet]

...Ben Solo is the Skywalkers' legacy, and it seems to me that if he was lying to Rey about her parents, then so was the dark side itself, because when she asked to see her parents in the cave, it just showed her herself.

I think I would have preferred the new trilogy to stand more on its own merits. All the torch-passing that goes on, especially in the Last Jedi, just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth.


EDIT: Also, when Luke tells Rey that he hid in a remote corner of the galaxy so he could die, it blows a gaping hole in the plot of TFA: if Luke didn't want to be found, why the hell is there a map leading to his location?

Ben Solo is a dead end. He killed Han, there's just no coming back from that. I think the big take-away from the Rey-Kylo dynamic is that Kylo is as unredeemable as Rey is incorruptible. They seem clearly to me to represent opposite sides of the Skywalker coin, but only Rey can really have a future. As soon as Kylo killed Han Solo, it seemed to me that the only way this could all end was for Kylo to be the one to kill Snoke, knowing that it would be his end as well, because Kylo refused to allow Snoke to destroy Rey (who he would have already realized is his cousin) and thereby truly honor his grandfather's legacy which he spent so much of TFA misunderstanding.

The Force Awakens set out the paths of Kylo, Rey, and Finn. Finn rejected the New Order, and his destiny is to bring about its downfall. Rey has spent her entire life seeking her family, and her destiny is to find it and to embody the Skywalker legacy. Kylo has always sought to be as strong as Darth Vader, and we all know that the ultimate expression of Vader's strength was when he sacrificed everything to defeat the master of the dark side (Palpatine) and protect the scion of the Skywalker legacy. That's Kylo's destiny.

I am baffled by people who think that it is somehow a good thing for Rey to come from worthless parents. She's not just strong with the Force, she's operating at Luke levels. She's The Chosen One. Star Wars is an epic tale of Force and Destiny, where things unfold according to prophecy and the will of the Force guides the hand of fate. Rey's destiny is to become the next Skywalker, one way or another. If she isn't a Skywalker in name, then that only means that Lucasfilm has gone out of its way to crap on George Lucas and wreck everything he made, because the role of the Skywalker scion/Chosen One is quite obviously what Rey is filling.

With regard to the map, though, I have to defend at least the possibility of a coherent story element. Luke was searching the galaxy in his X Wing, which we saw in the water of Ah Choo. He has to have been using the Force to navigate, however, because he didn't have R2 with him. An X Wing needs an astromech because it lacks a navicomputer, but a Jedi can use the Force to navigate hyperspace. That means that there wouldn't necessarily be a known X,Y,Z coordinate of Ah Choo, but instead a series of seat-of-the-pants jumps that would originate in a known or recognizable star system and end up at Luke's final destination. Now, with that said, the only way that works is if somehow that list of directions and distance could find its way from Ah Choo to Lor San Tekka. Maybe Leia had arranged for Luke's X Wing to transmit that information after every jump, but those transmissions never made it all the way to her. Given a chance to hammer out the details, I could totally make that work, and I desperately cling to the hope that Lawrence Kasdan is better at this than I am.