D&D General Unpopular Opinion?: D&D is a terrible venue for horror

[TheSword]

The frightened condition is an interesting one. Yes it has a debilitating disadvantage on attack rolls effect. Though it also prevents you moving closer to the source of your fear.

This can create an interesting dynamic if the source of your fear is about to do something you don’t want it to do, or you need to do something that requires getting closer.

For instance, the source of your fear is between you and the exit and the only other escape is a small crawl space or a dangerous leap across a pit, or through a spinning fan blade.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I would say that there's no mechanism for creating horror, period. It's an emotional response. That relies on both DM and player skill. Fear, sure, you can make a player fear for their character's life mechanically by stacking the deck against them, so to speak. By instituting a dwindling Humanity score, for example. But that's not sustainable in the long-term if the player isn't willing. Eventually the player either gets dulled to the sense of danger, stops caring, or moves on to a more enjoyable experience.

This is an example of a thing D&D can't do -- at least, there's no mechanism for it. of course the PLAYER can decide to role play this situation based on the DM's creepy description, but we can dismiss that because any player in any game can do that. D&D's core suppositions make this a poor way to play a dwarf that is more likely to irritate your party members that earn you a table Oscar.

I get squicked out so badly by The One Reborn. Every time.

I’ve been heavily inspired by the games of Sekiro and Bloodborne that I’ve played recently.

Neither of these games allow for character death or characters to lose equipment. Yes they still manage to convey the horror theme in bucketfuls.

 

[TheSword]

I get squicked out so badly by The One Reborn. Every time.

It is grimness itself - the afterbirth of a fledgeling god slooped together from all the corpses Yahar’gul!

There is no other game that gives me the same sense of joy and achievement at defeating a boss than Bloodborne!

 

[grimslade]

Horror can be achieved with any system. I agree that maintaining a constant horror campaign is very difficult because without contrast the players just become numb. I like the idea of switching up the system for horror only because it adds to the uncertainty of the players. That said I ran and played (rotating DMs) in multiple Ravenloft adventures, with psionic characters and access to all the kits in 2E, and the horror was still visceral. The mechanics are a distant factor in setting the tone and theme compared to table buy-in.

 

[Charlaquin]

I would say that there's no mechanism for creating horror, period. It's an emotional response. That relies on both DM and player skill. Fear, sure, you can make a player fear for their character's life mechanically by stacking the deck against them, so to speak.

There are ways to get the player’s emotional state more in sync with the characters’ emotional states. The earlier jenga example is a good one, but you can get a similar rising and falling tension effect with certain dice tricks. Building dice pools is a good example (and that’s probably part of why the core mechanic of WoD is dice pools). Also, fearing for your character’s life is far from the only way to facilitate a cathartic horror experience.

By instituting a dwindling Humanity score, for example.

Another trick from the WoD book.

But that's not sustainable in the long-term if the player isn't willing.

Nothing is sustainable in the long term if the player isn’t willing.

Eventually the player either gets dulled to the sense of danger, stops caring, or moves on to a more enjoyable experience.

The thing is, horror isn't an enjoyable experience, at least not in the traditional sense of being fun or rewarding. It can sometimes be exhilarating, but generally in a way that you’re relieved when it’s over rather than a way that makes you want to do it again. You don’t generally walk out of a horror moving feeling uplifted. It’s supposed to be cathartic. It’s supposed to be an exploration of negative emotions. And yes, that can be draining. There’s a reason horror games are often run as one-shots. Even games that are meant to be horror games end up swinging more towards drama, pulp, or schlocky hammer-horror type fare when it comes to long-term campaigns.

I get squicked out so badly by The One Reborn. Every time.

It’s so gross, I love it!

 

[Charlaquin]

. The mechanics are a distant factor in setting the tone and theme compared to table buy-in.

That is very true. I think mood-setting elements like music and props probably fall somewhere in-between.

 

[MGibster]

I know at least one poster has already mentioned this, but you've got to be in the right mindset for horror. And this is true for almost any genre whether we're talking about horror, dramas, or British farcical sex comedies from the 1970s. And if you don't believe me, just compare a few scenes from Halloween (1978) and Confessions of a Diving Instructor (1976). Notice how the directors of both movies use music to establish the mood in these scenes.

The question isn't whether or not you can run a horror game with D&D but whether or not it is a terrible system for running horror. I'm in the camp that it's a terrible system to run a horror game and that's coming from someone whose favorite module is the original I-6 Ravenloft module. The system just doesn't support horror and players don't go into it expect horror. If you want to run a horror game you're better off using a different set of rules. Try Cyborg Commando. That's the scariest game I've ever played.

 

[Bawylie]

I also wonder - what is the typical length of "horror" campaigns? In my experience horror is extra flavor I add to my campaign here and there with the occasional focus on horror session or two. Kind of the spice to the soup, but nothing I could see playing for a year or more like most of my D&D campaigns. After a while, either the PC is eliminated or the most horrific things just become mundane.

Idk about “typical” but in college I played in a Ravenloft campaign for about 3 years straight.

 

[Orius]

I'm also in the D&D is bad for horror camp, no matter how much Ravenloft there is. The Gimli scene that was mentioned? Here's an example of how it might play out in D&D:

DM of the Rings CVI:Boo! - Twenty Sided

www.shamusyoung.com

Horror often runs on a sense of helplessness. That doesn't really mix with D&D. PCs are often pretty competent, and if the DM takes away their powers and/or gear, it's more likely to piss the players off rather than scare them.

Set things up so the PCs can trust nobody? That's how you get murderhobos, kids.

The DM has to be able to set the mood properly, and players have to want to go along with it. D&D has its own set of tropes, and they don't mix very strongly with horror; players sitting down to a D&D game will tend to expect a certain experience that probably won't reflect horror tropes.

I have to admit that I detest horror, though. Slasher movies are mindlessly gory, and older films have their alleged scariness neutered by Hays Code insensibilities. Literature, TV and other media aren't any better. I'm not at all scared by horror, and I think the entire genre is inane, running on idiot plots and childlike fears of boogeymen in the dark. It's not something I can take seriously, and that kills it faster than a stake through Dracula's black and withered heart. I wouldn't be able to DM it properly, and I'd likely try derailing it as a player. So I'm probably a bit prejudiced against it in my response here.

 

[Anthony Winter]

Spinning off one of the Rime of the Frostmaiden threads, I feel like it is worth discussing: I think that D&D is an absolutely terrible game for trying to create a sense of horror in play. The only time it is even remotely possible is at low levels where PC competence and survivability are very low (the cutoff depends on the edition), and even then it is a specific "I'm going to get killed" sort of tension rather than actual horror. Mechanically, the only way to induce horror in D&D is to break the standard rules (instant death instead of HP loss, for example, or something like domination that represents a loss of control). Ultimately, PCs are too competent and the mechanics too codified for real fear to creep in. And, on a different horror scale, D&D characters generally don't have enough to lose, emotionally, for personal horror to mean much.

Now, I think D&D makes great use of horrific elements -- gross monsters with scary abilities and frightening imagery. But those things don't make D&D horror any more than they made Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies horror.

i beg to differ - try solace of silence or the city of eyes both high ranked horror published adventures. The official stuff cant delve too far past pg13 due to target audience