Two questions about Spirit Companions

[avin]

We were in doubt last game:

- Spirit Companions are affected by ongoing damage and hindering movement spells?

- "When you take a move action,you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed." can you move your Spirit Companion if you don't take a move action yourself?

 

[abyssaldeath]

We where in doubt last game:

- Spirit Companions are affected by ongoing damage and hindering movement spells?

Not unless said powers specifically target conjuration.

- "When you take a move action,you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed." can you move your Spirit Companion if you don't take a move action yourself?

No. You have to spend the action. The Shaman doesn't have to actually move, but the move action must be spent.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

We where in doubt last game:

- Spirit Companions are affected by ongoing damage and hindering movement spells?

Nope. They are conjurations. By default nothing affects conjurations. For example a Flaming Sphere spell is a conjuration, just like a spirit companion is. You can't damage them. PHB2 has the most up to date rules on this.

However, the power Call Spirit Companion which the shaman uses to conjure his SC DOES allow for a very small number of things to affect the SC, anything that isn't mentioned there has no affect on them.

- "When you take a move action,you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed." can you move your Spirit Companion if you don't take a move action yourself?

You can always move 0 squares with your move action. The other way to "move" an SC is to dismiss it (minor action) and summon it again (minor action). There is a feat that will let you summon it as a free action at paragon tier (Nimble Spirit).

 

[Mort_Q]

"When you take a move action,you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed." can you move your Spirit Companion if you don't take a move action yourself?

I you don't want to move, but you want to move your spirit companion, you can:

• Spend a move action, and move the Spirit Companion.
• Spend a minor action to dismiss the Spirit Companion, and then spent another minor action (sacrificing a Move or Standard action to do so) to conjure it again within the 20 square burst.

[edit] damned Ninjas! [/edit]

 

[avin]

Thanks guys.

 

[dravot]

We were in doubt last game:

- Spirit Companions are affected by ongoing damage and hindering movement spells?

Note that the shaman can be affected by hindering movement spells, so if the shaman was hit by such a spell, the spirit companion would be similarly affected since it derives it's max movement from the shaman.

 

[DracoSuave]

Remember the Shaman's Mantra. The spirit is -not- a creature. It does not act like a creature. It is an overglorified spell that has the sole effect as a catalyst for other powers, and nothing more.

Of course, the first question would have been answered by reading the power.

Turducken (the spirit companion) can be targeted by melee or ranged attacks, although it lacks hit points. If a single melee or ranged attack deals damage to the spirit equal to 10 + one-half your level or higher, the spirit disappears, and you take damage equal to 5 + one-half your level. Otherwise, the spirit is unaffected by the attack.

So ongoing damage does not work. Conditions on the spirit do not work. The only thing that works is a situation where damage is equal to 10 + half your level of higher, which has a singular consequence. Everything else is ignored. (Powers that target conjurations are an exception and work normally, because this only applies to attacks that can't normally target conjurations)

Also, things that alter the Shaman's speed -do- affect how much you can move the conjuration. But that's an effect on -you- not Turducken.

The second question is very simple: No. Either you have to spend a move action, or two minor actions. Spending two minor actions will cost you a move action.

However, you can take -any- move action and you can move Turducken as well. Even if that is a power that doesn't move you. All that is required is that it is a move action.

And if you take two move actions (a double move) you do get to move Turducken twice.

 

[CapnZapp]

More SC questions...:

1. The ever-green question: How often do you, the DM, let your critters attack the Spirit Companion?

If "never", doesn't that mean a considerable nerf to the shaman class - after all, the bit about the SC being attackable by melee/ranged suggests the designers anticipated the SC taking some hits for the team.

1b. And do you factor in the monster's damage into this decision? For instance, do you throw minions at the SC?
They will pretty much always waste their actions.

2. Can the SC fly? Is there any rule anywhere regulating movement in the third dimension whatsoever?
By "flying" I don't merely mean "running in thin air", I mean "climbing through the air at full speed" too.

And even if you answer "no"; how does that in practice hinder the Shaman from using dismiss/conjure to effectively have the SC fly anywhere within a 20 sq cube of the Shaman?

I mean, the conjuration doesn't need a surface to "stand" on? What does this mean if not that you can conjure it into thin air, and that it can move even over air?


3. How do you handle when the Shaman conjures his SC into the face of a running monster? (Perhaps a fleeing one; perhaps one using flight)

I know it's a mistake to try to picture what would happen in the real world, and that just because you used flight (or run speed) your last turn, doesn't mean you need to slow down to evade any sudden obstacles, but I have ruled that at the very least the SC gets a OA when the monster thunders past.

My player have hoped the SC (by virtue of "enemies can't enter his square") would have stopped the monster in his tracks, or at least have triggered the "use acrobatics to leap over a foe" skill check. However, I find that this would make the SC far too strong, given that it can appear anywhere within 20 squares - it will always be the ultimate "stop him from escaping!" schtick.


Generally, I'm unfortunately finding that either my rules-fu on conjurations is weak, or that the rules support for SCs is weak overall. There simply seems to be no end to the creative usages my Shaman player is coming up with that the rules have no immediately accessible answer to.

Either that, or I haven't yet understood how very restrictive and inflexible these conjurations are supposed to be?

 

[DracoSuave]

1. The ever-green question: How often do you, the DM, let your critters attack the Spirit Companion?

It depends on tactical necessity for smart monsters, and the instincts of weaker monsters. However, if monsters never attack the spirit companion, that is a useful trait tactically speaking, and can be used to the party's advantage.

To say it is a nerf is a bit of a stretch when the alternative is a massive outpour of free damage or healing.

1b. And do you factor in the monster's damage into this decision? For instance, do you throw minions at the SC?

Depends on the encounter. See above.

2. Can the SC fly? Is there any rule anywhere regulating movement in the third dimension whatsoever?

I don't honestly care. Most combat does not occur between aerial combatants, which means that the rules for aerial combat are not intended to be implied. The rules for aerial combat -themselves- tell you that 3d combat is not meant to be applied for ground-based battles.

So why would I have special rules set aside for this that differ from the default, which is, don't bother.

3. How do you handle when the Shaman conjures his SC into the face of a running monster? (Perhaps a fleeing one; perhaps one using flight)

Entirely depends on the situation. See above.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sorry, but that is possibly your least helpful reply I've seen, DracoSuave.

If you wanted to simply say you don't know, that would be okay. But now you're saying "don't bother".

How does that help me run an encounter with a Dragon? It wants to make a tactical retreat by flying away; the Shaman puts his spirit into the face of the airborne express train.

And I don't even understand your reply on 3D movement, much as I don't understand the DMG advice on how aerial combat really works out.

1. Can the spirit companion be conjured into thin air; yes or no?
2. Once there, can it move (without falling to the ground)?
3. If yes, can it move in all three dimensions or is it confined to its current altitude?

Simple huh?

Finally, regarding your reply on when to attack the SC. Obviously you are right in that it is a tactical advantage if the DMG never would attack the spirit. But I would have thought it obvious that I wasn't discussing such a rigid approach.

Obviously, if the SC blocks a one-square wide passage-way, monsters are going to attack it (or at least bull rush it out of the way).

But let me rephrase my question: "Do you as the DM ever have a monster choose to attack the SC even when there is an option to attack someone else in the party, even if that is less convenient".

That is, do you have your critters go out of the way of not wasting attacks on the SC (only attacking the SC when there are no feasible alternatives)? Don't you feel this nerfs the Shaman, who then loses out on his damage reducing ability (where 30, say, points of damage on the SC is reduced to merely 5 + half level).

Please note I'm not intending this to be a private conversation between me and DracosSuave. Feel free to chip in with how you are reacting to your party's Shaman SC!