Triple-empowered Bull's Strength?

[malichai]

I saw, just in passing, in another thread about polymorphing self/polymorph other, mention of someone casting a "triple-empowered Bull's Strength." What feat allows you to triple the random effects of a spell like that?

 

[Nightfall]

The only thing I know of that comes close is a Maximize spell...but wasting on a Bull's Strength doesn't make much sense since it doesn't make it more powerful.

 

[reapersaurus]

were they referring to the "Overpowered Bull's Strength" spell that was being discussed recently in D&D Rules Forum?

As i remember (I didn't read it close) it was like a 5th level spell or something that they had proposed.
It was not a rule, it was a house-rule spell being discussed in D&D Rules.

 

[malichai]

Here's a cut and paste of the pertinent part of the thread (and it was started by Numion).

PCs as Stone Giants

Cleric with triple-empowered Bull's Strength on top of Stone Giant strength is quite a combat beast, especially with War Domain, wielding a huge Two-Handed Sword. Both of their ACs where out of whack because of the giant-forms Natural AC bonus of +11! Any fighter of equal level would have hard time doing as much damage as the Cleric. (Surprise round: "activate haste boots, quickened Divine Favor, partial charge!" --> N damage).

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

That's 3x Empower Spell, or +150% for +6 spell level. Stacking the same metamagic feat.

I comes out to an 8th-level slot granting 5-11 points of strength.

 

[James McMurray]

By "triple-empowered" they were probably referring to having the spell increased by adding three empower feats to it (thus increasing it to 1d4+1 x 2.5. Not quite tripled, but still a good range (from 5 to 12).

 

[malichai]

Ah... thanks!

 

[Squire James]

As a DM who has to take high-level gaming into account, I don't allow "self-stacking" the metamagic feats unless the caster actually took the feat more than once. For instance, the Twin Spell feat is almost completely useless if you allow someone to "double-empower" a spell with only the Empower Spell feat.

Furthermore, think of the Wizard 21 (or Wizard 7/ Incantrix 10 if you like) who has access to Improved Metamagic. He casts an Empowered x4 Cone of Cold. That's 45d6 damage. Compare this to Meteor Swarm, a "normal" 9th level spell. See the imbalance? My thought on it is that this guy should only be able to do it if he actually took the Empower Spell feat 4 times.

Boccob (and his level 20 spell slot) could tell you that infinite Empower Spell should be a Salient Divine Ability, not a feat. I can see a god pummelling someone with an Empowered x15 Cone of Cold for 112d6 damage, but I don't think even epic characters should do it without Epic Spellcasting!

EDIT - Of course, Boccob would probably just Empowered x12 Horrid Wilting for 150d8 non-elemental damage in most cases.

 

[James McMurray]

For instance, the Twin Spell feat is almost completely useless if you allow someone to "double-empower" a spell with only the Empower Spell feat

Only if all you ever used Twin Spell on was spells with variable effects and always wanted to affect the same area/target.

 

[Creamsteak]

As a DM who has to take high-level gaming into account, I don't allow "self-stacking" the metamagic feats unless the caster actually took the feat more than once. For instance, the Twin Spell feat is almost completely useless if you allow someone to "double-empower" a spell with only the Empower Spell feat.

Furthermore, think of the Wizard 21 (or Wizard 7/ Incantrix 10 if you like) who has access to Improved Metamagic. He casts an Empowered x4 Cone of Cold. That's 45d6 damage. Compare this to Meteor Swarm, a "normal" 9th level spell. See the imbalance? My thought on it is that this guy should only be able to do it if he actually took the Empower Spell feat 4 times.

Boccob (and his level 20 spell slot) could tell you that infinite Empower Spell should be a Salient Divine Ability, not a feat. I can see a god pummelling someone with an Empowered x15 Cone of Cold for 112d6 damage, but I don't think even epic characters should do it without Epic Spellcasting!

EDIT - Of course, Boccob would probably just Empowered x12 Horrid Wilting for 150d8 non-elemental damage in most cases.

I'm pretty sure you misread empower. It doesn't multply the damage dice, turning 10d6 into 15d6, it multiplies the total damage.

For instance, Delayed Blast Fireball with it's 20d8 damage empowered 5 times to make it a 17th level spell (I'm just supposing since my books are not out), that it will do 20d8 x 3.5 damage.

Average damage of 80 x 3.5 would give you 280 damage.... not as insane as 150d8 for 600 damage... Hell your horrid wilting at 25d8 averages 100 damage x 6.5 gives you 650 damage... but your talking a 20'th level slot...

I won't say your houserule is a bit much, but with the rarity of feats, your hurting your wizards.