humble minion
Legend
There hasn’t been a ravenloft thread on enworld in years that didn’t eventually end up in this sort of discussion. It’s inevitable, roll with it.
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D&D General The thread where I review a ton of Ravenloft modules
- Thread starter der_kluge
- Start date
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
That is true lol. But the OP has a pretty clear mission of reviewing the modules, and we have litigated this stuff many times in the past, so I think forking that conversation into another thread is probably helpful for keeping this one alive
der_kluge
Adventurer
lol I don't mind the segue. I think it's a good topic for exploration. I think I've already shown that a WHOLE bunch of these modules are, well, terrible. I have to wonder if all the people who played Ravenloft "back in the day" and ultimately came to despise it, were subjected to some really terrible module like Feast of Goblyns or Hour of the Knife and came away thinking the setting as a whole was awful. I mean, I think if I had a GM turn to me and say "Oh, you're a doppleganger now, and you're required to start killing all your friends", I'd have a pretty bleak opinion of the setting, too.
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
If you don't like it you don't like it. But you did get some very basic elements of it wrong in your review
der_kluge
Adventurer
There is something I wanted to discuss further, however, and that's the mists themselves. The mist is, by it's nature, pretty heavy-handed. I never quite understood it too much in 2nd edition, since Forlorn is just west of Barovia - "what do you mean, I can't just travel to it by heading down this road? That's what the map shows!" I very much like the way VRGtR handles it, by making all the domains basically just islands. Although, curiously, there are still islands, but whatever.
I'm kind of two minds on this one. In the campaign I just started (first session was good, btw, and apparently I'm mirroring Bleak House more than I'd care to admit to), I'm planning on having them take a steamboat (Sea Wolf) to another domain (Mordentshire, or Richemulot, maybe), but I don't really see a reason why every domain has to be completely isolated from every other domain by mists. It sure does make trade a whole lot more difficult, and I do like to keep my worlds as realistic as possible. So, I might end up having there be some sort of actual map of the place, but with a vague sense of the mists when needed. I don't know. I'm still a ways off from having to worry about that. I think I've got like 4 modules planned just in Souragne, which is where I'm starting.
I'm kind of two minds on this one. In the campaign I just started (first session was good, btw, and apparently I'm mirroring Bleak House more than I'd care to admit to), I'm planning on having them take a steamboat (Sea Wolf) to another domain (Mordentshire, or Richemulot, maybe), but I don't really see a reason why every domain has to be completely isolated from every other domain by mists. It sure does make trade a whole lot more difficult, and I do like to keep my worlds as realistic as possible. So, I might end up having there be some sort of actual map of the place, but with a vague sense of the mists when needed. I don't know. I'm still a ways off from having to worry about that. I think I've got like 4 modules planned just in Souragne, which is where I'm starting.
der_kluge
Adventurer
Fixing those don't make it any better.
der_kluge
Adventurer
Speaking of reviews...
Bane of the Shadowborn (Dungeon #31)
Let’s hop back into our wayback machines and head to 1991 and Dungeon #31. The domain here is unspecified, other than “The Shadowborn estate” which is an island. It is intended for levels 6-9. Having access to the “Darklords” accessory is recommended, though not required, as the chief antagonist here is the Ebonbane, an evil intelligent sword.
The setup assumes the PCs are coming into Ravenloft, but they could just as easily be coming through the mists from some other domain. It’s assumed that one of the PCs is a descendant of Lady Shadowborn, whose home this was centuries ago. It starts with the chosen descendant PC having a nightmare about fighting a man in a manor with a black sword. The dream sequence is supposed to end with the PC losing, and then actually waking up (along with the rest of the party) in the mists. Then they find a one-way wall, which leads into the courtyard of the manor house. Would you believe I’m 5 pages into this module at this point? Yea, it’s wordy. Also, the dream sequence is completely unnecessary.
At the entrance to the manor, you are greeted by the ghost of Lady Shadowborn who introduces herself and tells the PCs that they have come here in her time of need. Then Ebonbane takes over and the message gets cut short, and a hideous version of the same face informs them that they will all die. It’s a nicely done scene. A rarity for what follows, unfortunately.
The rest of the manor house is an overly dramatic, overly boxed-text heavy dungeon crawl. In fact, I think half of this module is just boxed-text. There’s a lot of combat as well, and most of it is in the form of an unavoidable encounter just by stepping into the room variety. Like Horror’s Harvest, the author makes a point to indicate that certain spells like wish, limited wish, or anti-magic shell can stop Ebonbane from hurling knives at the party while they’re in the kitchen but seems to have forgotten that this is a module written for 6th-9th level character. So unnecessary.
There are about 25 rooms in the manor, and the PCs are tasked, through a vision with Lady Shadowbane, to retrieve four elemental keys. The keys are a vial of holy water, air from a sarcophagus in the crypt, dirt from a wine cellar, and then magical fire which the PCs are supposed to create themselves. The clue for this fourth one is given once they have acquired the first three. Anyone who attempts to open the final door without having all 4 keys must save or die, bursting into flames and ash as a result. Wow, ok. The clues to the first 3 keys are super vague, and I would expect a lot of parties to attempt to acquire fire from the angry fire in the kitchen (which tries to kill them). There’s absolutely no indication which “dirt” is the correct dirt. The air from the sarcophagus is interesting, though it’s not exactly on-brand for a former paladin in her estate. So, it seems reasonable that PCs will dismiss that as not being the correct “air” to acquire. There’s also a couple of red herrings (an earth weird, for example, or strong winds upstairs) that could also sufficiently throw them off the trail.
In the end, the PCs confront Ebonbane, use the keys to weaken him, and then presumably are successful in returning to their home plane after fighting the sword while floating through the mists. There’s a lot to like here, unfortunately there’s probably more to not like. The entire thing reads like a cheesy Goosebumps novel. It’s sufficiently vague and hard that I could see PCs getting very easily frustrated by the lack of sufficient clues. The four elemental key puzzle feels like it’s been ripped from every video game I’ve ever played, and thematically aren’t relevant here anyway. Ebonbane, for his part, is just an evil sword, but is described as being able to do whatever it wants within the domain. Why it cowers in the cellar the entire time is a little weird. For a sword described as being such a narcissist, greeting them at the door and killing them, only to retreat, if necessary, would make more sense.
Bane of the Shadowborn (Dungeon #31)
Let’s hop back into our wayback machines and head to 1991 and Dungeon #31. The domain here is unspecified, other than “The Shadowborn estate” which is an island. It is intended for levels 6-9. Having access to the “Darklords” accessory is recommended, though not required, as the chief antagonist here is the Ebonbane, an evil intelligent sword.
The setup assumes the PCs are coming into Ravenloft, but they could just as easily be coming through the mists from some other domain. It’s assumed that one of the PCs is a descendant of Lady Shadowborn, whose home this was centuries ago. It starts with the chosen descendant PC having a nightmare about fighting a man in a manor with a black sword. The dream sequence is supposed to end with the PC losing, and then actually waking up (along with the rest of the party) in the mists. Then they find a one-way wall, which leads into the courtyard of the manor house. Would you believe I’m 5 pages into this module at this point? Yea, it’s wordy. Also, the dream sequence is completely unnecessary.
At the entrance to the manor, you are greeted by the ghost of Lady Shadowborn who introduces herself and tells the PCs that they have come here in her time of need. Then Ebonbane takes over and the message gets cut short, and a hideous version of the same face informs them that they will all die. It’s a nicely done scene. A rarity for what follows, unfortunately.
The rest of the manor house is an overly dramatic, overly boxed-text heavy dungeon crawl. In fact, I think half of this module is just boxed-text. There’s a lot of combat as well, and most of it is in the form of an unavoidable encounter just by stepping into the room variety. Like Horror’s Harvest, the author makes a point to indicate that certain spells like wish, limited wish, or anti-magic shell can stop Ebonbane from hurling knives at the party while they’re in the kitchen but seems to have forgotten that this is a module written for 6th-9th level character. So unnecessary.
There are about 25 rooms in the manor, and the PCs are tasked, through a vision with Lady Shadowbane, to retrieve four elemental keys. The keys are a vial of holy water, air from a sarcophagus in the crypt, dirt from a wine cellar, and then magical fire which the PCs are supposed to create themselves. The clue for this fourth one is given once they have acquired the first three. Anyone who attempts to open the final door without having all 4 keys must save or die, bursting into flames and ash as a result. Wow, ok. The clues to the first 3 keys are super vague, and I would expect a lot of parties to attempt to acquire fire from the angry fire in the kitchen (which tries to kill them). There’s absolutely no indication which “dirt” is the correct dirt. The air from the sarcophagus is interesting, though it’s not exactly on-brand for a former paladin in her estate. So, it seems reasonable that PCs will dismiss that as not being the correct “air” to acquire. There’s also a couple of red herrings (an earth weird, for example, or strong winds upstairs) that could also sufficiently throw them off the trail.
In the end, the PCs confront Ebonbane, use the keys to weaken him, and then presumably are successful in returning to their home plane after fighting the sword while floating through the mists. There’s a lot to like here, unfortunately there’s probably more to not like. The entire thing reads like a cheesy Goosebumps novel. It’s sufficiently vague and hard that I could see PCs getting very easily frustrated by the lack of sufficient clues. The four elemental key puzzle feels like it’s been ripped from every video game I’ve ever played, and thematically aren’t relevant here anyway. Ebonbane, for his part, is just an evil sword, but is described as being able to do whatever it wants within the domain. Why it cowers in the cellar the entire time is a little weird. For a sword described as being such a narcissist, greeting them at the door and killing them, only to retreat, if necessary, would make more sense.
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
They formed part of your criticism though. Again, you don't have to like it, but I do think your take isn't how most people reacted to the module (and going back to it I think most fans still appreciate it). Declaring it terrible doesn't make it so
Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
The mists aren't constantly blocking travel. Each domain lord has the power to close their borders in different ways. So if you get into it with one or attract their attention it is possible the borders might close. But otherwise the mists aren't going to stop you traveling into Forlorn. The mists are kind of mysterious and they are heavy handed. They are like that for a few reasons but the main one is TSR Ravenlfot is much more monster of the week. So the mists help give the GM the ability to pluck PCs and put them in Lamordia if that is what he has planned (they don't have to be used that way though). The mists surrounding the village of Barovia are a different story of course
I quite like the mists. They really embody the dreamy and surreal nature of the setting (and because it is a demiplane on the border of the ethereal plane, it fits
Also not a fan of the domains as islands concept. On one level I get why they did it, but it also feels like, yet again, they gave up on the idea of making Ravenloft a cohesive setting. The only version that attempted it was the 3rd edition by Sword and Sorcery but I really disliked a lot of those books.
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