The Star Pact Handicap

[Nifft]

As cool as the quote is, you can only store 1 charge of a Pact Boon in a single Rod of Harvest at a time. The best being a +2 to a roll stored in a Rod of Harvest due to Improved Fate of the Void. So you can at least add +4 to a d20 roll with 2 Minor Actions, on top of any bonuses Fate of the Void gives before you turn started.

Well, if we're getting technical, Improved Fate of the Void attaches to the roll, not the kill. You get +1 over whatever sum you'd normally have -- not double -- and only on your roll, not when you store it in the rod.

Regarding stacking: it could be argued that each kill-bonus replaces the previous kill bonus, since you do get a stacking cumulative bonus which you apply to a d20 roll, not a pile of bonuses which you can choose to apply to several d20 rolls. If it were so argued, I'd simply store the last (highest) kill-bonus in the Harvest Rod.

But either way, it's not my recommended strategy. Just a big hammer and a Rod of Corruption.

Cheers, -- N

 

[IanB]

Putting my DM hat on for a moment, I don't think I'd allow those to stack, any more than I'd allow a ranger to apply his off hand weapon's daily power to an attack made with the main hand weapon. There's not a terribly strong RAW argument for not letting them stack, but I get the feeling we're not really going to be able to read the RAW like we're Talmudic scholars like we did with 3.5.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

I have contacted the officiants of star-pact magic in regards to this dilemma, and received this response.

I lol'd.

 

[Benly]

Putting my DM hat on for a moment, I don't think I'd allow those to stack, any more than I'd allow a ranger to apply his off hand weapon's daily power to an attack made with the main hand weapon. There's not a terribly strong RAW argument for not letting them stack, but I get the feeling we're not really going to be able to read the RAW like we're Talmudic scholars like we did with 3.5.

The issue is that neither Corruption nor Reaving applies to an attack using the implement. If the ranger had an off-hand weapon with a property that gave him +2 Will defense, would you say he doesn't get the bonus on rounds when he doesn't use that weapon to attack?

That said, as was pointed out it's an entirely legitimate reading of RAW to not allow Corruption to trigger Reaving. This turns the combination from "kill every minion at once with a minor action" into "pop a minion and curse a wide spread at once with a minor action", which is to my mind a strong but not unreasonable use of both hand slots.

 

[IanB]

The issue is that neither Corruption nor Reaving applies to an attack using the implement. If the ranger had an off-hand weapon with a property that gave him +2 Will defense, would you say he doesn't get the bonus on rounds when he doesn't use that weapon to attack?

That said, as was pointed out it's an entirely legitimate reading of RAW to not allow Corruption to trigger Reaving. This turns the combination from "kill every minion at once with a minor action" into "pop a minion and curse a wide spread at once with a minor action", which is to my mind a strong but not unreasonable use of both hand slots.

My feeling is that 4e magic items are designed such that you would never see a weapon with a passive +2 Will defense bonus (at least hopefully, otherwise we'll be back to Christmas tree time.) Implements fill the "weapon" role for classes that use them and I figure they should basically be treated the same way.

 

[Saitou]

I think the use of both CON and CHA effectively represents the schizophrenia that would haunt someone who chooses to deal with the Far Realms.

The problem is the balance of powers using such stats. The best high-level Star powers are CON based, and CHA based powers aren't all that flashy.

Then there's the whole problem that the Doomsayer Paragon Path is absolute , makign enemies reroll "end of turn" Fear effects when only three Fear powers allow roll in the entire PHB. And the one a Warlock does have is a level one daily.
Thread here: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230666

 

[Nifft]

The problem is the balance of powers using such stats. The best high-level Star powers are CON based, and CHA based powers aren't all that flashy.

Post some comparisons?

IMHO Dark Transport is flashier than Thirteen Baleful Stars, and Wrath of Acamar is just as flashy as Banish to the Void.

Then there's the whole problem that the Doomsayer Paragon Path

It's got one useless ability, but it's not terrible. The Doomsayer utility power is awesome.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WOLead]

The problem is the balance of powers using such stats. The best high-level Star powers are CON based, and CHA based powers aren't all that flashy.

I'm tempted to agree to that statement when looking at the level 29 powers. The level 13 Encounter and 15 Daily Charisma powers just don't seem to be able to hold their own against their respective and multiple Constitution powers of the same. But if you go pure Con and little to no Cha, you miss out on a few gems from the Cha side.

That said, I would rather take the Charisma powers at level 19 Daily, 23 Encounter, and 25 Daily. Wrath of Acamar or Delusions of Loyalty, Dark Transpot, and Curse of the Twin Princes.

Wrath of Acamar is a standard straight forward attack, that is capable of temporarily making an enemy disappear while dealing more damage.

Delusions of Loyalty does no damage to your target. Instead, it takes their standard action and turns it against enemies who attack you with basic attacks. If they can't make that attack, or no one attacked you, the target looses their standard action. Very useful as its a Sustain Minor, so you can keep blasting the target in its own back while it attempts to protect you. Just gotta keep landing those Cha vs. Will rolls.

I'd take either over the only Con power at level 19.

Dark Transport is just a preference over Spiteful Darts and Thorns of Venom.

Curse of the Twin Princes. Despite being 1d10 less damage when compared to the other two level 25 Daily Con powers, I would still take it. The Effect itself can be a cursed blessing. When beside each other, allies, enemies, and even the target and yourself may accidentally hit the wrong target. However as a ranged combatant, you should usually place a bit of distance between the two of you before blasting. If the target doesn't have reach or a ranged attack though, he has half a chance at hitting himself if he runs up and attacks you.

The best part of Curse of the Twin Princes is its rider on the Hit. Whenever you get hit and then succeed at a Cha vs. Will against that same target, you only take half the damage and the target takes the other half as psychic damage. And its until the end of the encounter. Hit anybody with that, and they will fear you taking damage as if it were themselves. Heh, follow it up with Warlock's Bargain from a Wand, especially if you aren't a Infernal Pact. You take half your level in damage, and they take 3d10+Con+Your Level in damage if you make both the Con vs. Fort and Cha vs. Will throws. Or Doom of Delban, and give half the of the 2d10 damage you take for sustaining to the target on top of the 5+d10 as being targetted by it.

 

[Ian Demagi]

reply

"Curse of the Twin Princes. Despite being 1d10 less damage when compared to the other two level 25 Daily Con powers, I would still take it. The Effect itself can be a cursed blessing. When beside each other, allies, enemies, and even the target and yourself may accidentally hit the wrong target. However as a ranged combatant, you should usually place a bit of distance between the two of you before blasting. If the target doesn't have reach or a ranged attack though, he has half a chance at hitting himself if he runs up and attacks you.

The best part of Curse of the Twin Princes is its rider on the Hit. Whenever you get hit and then succeed at a Cha vs. Will against that same target, you only take half the damage and the target takes the other half as psychic damage. And its until the end of the encounter. Hit anybody with that, and they will fear you taking damage as if it were themselves. Heh, follow it up with Warlock's Bargain from a Wand, especially if you aren't a Infernal Pact. You take half your level in damage, and they take 3d10+Con+Your Level in damage if you make both the Con vs. Fort and Cha vs. Will throws. Or Doom of Delban, and give half the of the 2d10 damage you take for sustaining to the target on top of the 5+d10 as being targetted by it."


Oooo this is too good, I will have to use this when I finally get to play, Ian.

 

[Goobermunch]

Nifft--

Thanks for pointing out the sheer awesomeness of the Rod of Corruption. I've been biting my tongue about it since late December. Even if your wizard doesn't manage to wipe out a roomful of minions while you're using it, it does a fantastic job of passing your curse around so your damage will increase.

--G